Jump to content

Recommended Posts

It's cute, think it will do well.  I does lack a competent mixing interface (don't think that iOS device qualifies for heat of the moment type of stuff), but provides a great value for what it does.  It does however lack so much, that I don't think most professionals will use it as anything other than either a backup, 1st recorder to get a foot in the door, or for high risk environments (just the other day I loaded up my rig into a dry bag, then into a pelican, and then onto a raft for a white water sequence - the typical "bag drop" where we are not mixing anyways).  I don't care if the unit costs $1,000 or $20,000 - the best hardware for the job gets my dollar and I think this is a serious attempt by Zoom to get into the professional production sound world.  If there's a future version with digital I/O, camera return(s), a mixing control surface, it's certainly something I'd consider.  I may even pick one up for a grab bag to send out the door for quick/cheap jobs.

What it does better than others... compact size, light weight, iOS features, can act as an (8/4) computer interface (really impressive)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As of know as a first mixer/ recorder this is a no brainier (if it live up to the hype) I'm just curious how they managed to get a TC clock that is as accurate as denecke for that low of a price?:mellow:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As of know as a first mixer/ recorder this is a no brainier (if it live up to the hype) I'm just curious how they managed to get a TC clock that is as accurate as denecke for that low of a price?:mellow:

I'm not sure I'd use the term "no-brainer".  Many market still require a good mix and may even not require recording (if your starting off in ENG for example).  The inability to monitor a camera return and difficult to provide real time mix, might mean that something like a used 442 @ the same price could potentially be a better use of a beginner's $1000.  YMMV depending on individual circumstances.  I think a lot of people have this idea that their first rig must be a recording rig - that is not always true.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Dual-Channel Recording

The F8's dual-channel recording mode allows you to create safety tracks on inputs 1-4, each with independent level, limiting, delay, phase inversion, and high-pass filtering."

Like a wannabe-NeverClip but this could come in handy in a few situations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
VAS   

I hope to be better from Tascam DR-680 MKII, Tascam DR-70D, Zoom H6 and Edirol R44. Otherwise looks very good on specifications.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure I'd use the term "no-brainer".  Many market still require a good mix and may even not require recording (if your starting off in ENG for example).  The inability to monitor a camera return and difficult to provide real time mix, might mean that something like a used 442 @ the same price could potentially be a better use of a beginner's $1000.  YMMV depending on individual circumstances.  I think a lot of people have this idea that their first rig must be a recording rig - that is not always true.

I agree that everyone's circumstances will be different. However. I have found that nowadays most of the jobs that a beginner will be doing will be with DSLRs and recording will be needed. Also, since more and more low budget cameras are having the option for timecode; a recorder in this price range with that ability will be a big asset before they can afford a Zax/SD. I know that if this was out when I first started this would be at the top of the list.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
codyman   

With how small and affordable it is, seems like a great backup recorder for my cart / can rent it out to people if someone is looking for a basic recorder.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Extrapolating from Tom's comment..It's the kind of low cost add-on that would make a great addition to a 442 when warranted ;) with its selectable return mon. Frankly, it might have been a good move for SD a ways back to have a simpler, compact iso bit bucket piggyback in same fashion..even without pre-amps..just a few TA3. PIggybacked onto 442 with even a proprietary cable..could have been very low profile. But..in Mike's apparent absence, "it depends", "market" etc, etc.etc.

Edited by Rich Reilly

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe its worth letting zoom (assuming they're listening here as well as more obvious music recording / lobo film forums) what we think in the month before v1 software is finalised and units are shipped?

For myself, I am like others far more impressed than I expected to be - spec, feature and build wise. It's in fact the first zoom product that I've looked at quite seriously of being of use (to me - mostly FX recording, surround, very portable, AA battery built in option - TC gen also welcome). (Its also more expensive - at the 'prosumer' level - giving one hope for quality of components etc).

What I can't see in preliminary notes is CHANNEL GANGING ABILITY - this is the one absolutely crucial feature (for quick accurate stereo and multichannel music and effect recording) that I hope can be implemented and will be implemented by v1 software: ideally any combination of selected tracks to be controlled by one fader; even better if more than one fader group could be chosen (so, a five channel group on fader 1, tracks 1-5, and a second 3 channel group on fader 6, tracks 6-8). The minimum usefulness for me would be the ability to group FOUR tracks on one fader.

It's a little upsetting that the TRS deals only with line in and the XLR with mic in. Despite the obvious impedances quoted it might be workable to switch off phantom and use an XLR as line in ... at a minimum +10 gain boost though? What I cannot quite figure is if the line in is +4 or -10: the specs quote the former

(High quality mic preamps with up to 75dB gain, less than -127dBu EIN, and +4dB line inputs)

whereas the photos suggest a -20 ?? input level?

Shame also that output at -10 and not +4, although -40 option is good.

Things I do like are big HP socket, hirose and AA etc powering, use as soundcard interface, and delays on IP/OP.

I doubt that any hardware can or will be changed - and don't really care ... its something that MAY be of use to me or may not - but software implementation is another thing. Ganging? I really cannot see why this isn't in EVERY new machine, and comprehensive in all the professional gear. Stereo and multichannel have after all been with us in music and film for about a century now ...

Jez

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"whereas the photos suggest a -20 ?? input level?"

The specs state a max line input of "+34 dBu (at 0 dBFS, limiter on"  The SDs and others are around +26dB .. I wouldn't think Zoom could put a limiter on the input stage at that price...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ganging? I really cannot see why this isn't in EVERY new machine, and comprehensive in all the professional gear. Stereo and multichannel have after all been with us in music and film for about a century now ...

 + 1  - but i suspect they must be onto this as there are several references to its surround capabilities on the F8 website. But point taken... ahem: as many have begged, the SD 633 would make a nice little DMS machine but for a firmware upgrade.

Edited by petersont

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I notice that the detent mark on the meters is -12 rather than -20 like many other machine we use. There is also a marker point at -18 on the meter scale. The -12 line up mark seems to becoming more of a "standard" for many newer devices, DSLRs for example, the other Zoom models and the like (Tascam DR 60/70 etc.). No big deal. At least there are numerical markings to show how much head room you have. The resolution on the meter scale is finer between -12 and 0 also (1/2 db steps). I actually think this is a good thing, as that area is where we are usually mixing things. I never saw much need for fine resolution between -30 and -20. my 2 cents.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chris, I don't agree! I like having resolution for my program levels, but I also like seeing the quieter bits for measuring my noise floor and troubleshooting (i.e. signals coming in too low).

Don't mean to digress too much. Looking forward to seeing if this is a viable backup machine.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You guys considering this as a backup machine... I hear you, and I'm curious to check one of these out, but IF (big "IF")... you get the feeling this would be good enough, I'd be hesitant to show productions a way to haggle your kit... or you, for that matter.

I already see G3's used in many places I never thought I would.

While I cringe at the high cost of a modern gear package... it's also another layer of job security. A really good sound package is prohibitively expensive. If you buy one of these, I'd consider it for emergencies only. Evolution of the industry is inevitable... and some people will make a gig work (and possibly sound good) with tools like this... it looks like the mixer equivalent of a G3.

I work for a few clients that have G3 of their own... and they will struggle through a one-man band on occasion.

*shrug*

Just sayin'... if you get one of these... I wouldn't have it sitting out there, by itself... running a gig.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
FredS   

Much of the speculation above is based on earlier products manufactured to be competitive in a market space different from our own.

The F8 could be a bullseye in our space depending on the skills and commitment of it's Product Manager, the quality of detailed information he/she has about how we target customers actually do our work, and the backing from Corporate to press for a win.  

A fully pro F8 can come from the same company as all those earlier products. Our best interests are served by giving their Product Manager the crispest possible view into our workspace -- both cart & bag. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fred:

On a FB group page for mixers, one of the members said that he had been working with Zoom for months, giving them feedback on what pros are looking for.  Let's hope you are right and the manager and corporate took heed.  We'll soon see.

"James Appleton I've been talking with Zoom for the past 8 months about this (I used to be in a band with their marketing manager- you've seen him in the NAB/NAMM videos). I constantly gave input as to what we need on a daily basis, sent videos of my 788 set-up in the bag explaining bag stuff and what we always need, etc so I expect this thing to be pretty cool and at minimum a perfect starter or backup recorder. I should be getting my hands on one to test drive soon and will report back with my initial thoughts. But there's been a lot of thought and work put into this bad boy."

Edited by Michael Panfeld

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
greyfoxx   

So far the weight, redundant SD cards, timecode accuracy(if true) of 0.2ppm, and output delay seem way too good to be true for that price point. This keeps my mind coming back to my experience with Zoom's history of poor reliability. Another thing to consider is how these will probably flood the market. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
pindrop   

Cat, pigeons, fox, chickens.

Limiters, 192Khz, 10 tracks, safety record 4 tracks, pre-record 6 seconds, bluetooth ios app with mix and metadata, High pass filter, phase invert, and Mid-Side decoder, input delays, slate mic, tone, bnc tc in/outs, usb interface, hirose DC. dimensions 7.0 in. (W) × 5.5 in. (D) × 2.1 in. (H), weight 2lbs. $999

Zoom seem to be trying very hard, for the price.

The obvious big limitation seems to be mix only possible on ios app.

Edited by pindrop

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not hard to imagine this will replace a lot of what's now Edirol R-44, DR-680, Tascam HS82, Roland R-88. I don't think it will be able to take market share from SD or Zaxcom, as these machines are tailored towards us with many more years of experience in this market and with predecessor machines. As of now, one of the most obvious advantages of the SD/Zax recorders in my opinion are really good limiters, which all of the above mentioned machines do not have (they have limiters, but they're not good). This seems to be one of the hardest things to implement well in a recorder, and also one of the most crucial things for our line of work. Even if you never use it. It's a bit like an airbag in your car.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jrd456   

Question about F8----can you overdub on it? in other words,can you playback certain tracks while recording on the others?

 

                                                       J.D.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×