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daniel   

Last year i met an X3 owner-operator checking out the F8 for SFX recording - just another tool and part of the package of services he wanted to provide. I think size was part of the consideration. By all account the pre-amps are fine, having limiters and LPF after the ADs is not so good for lip sync. Consumer line level only through TRS is inconvenient.

I've already read on this forum a respect PSM using DNS - pandora's box has been opened (if you like). Personally, it seems little different in principle from a Super cmit which has been used and approved on this forum for a while, except DNS is potentially more effective (if used well) and a bit more versatile, as in you've 2 channels to play with for 2 mics or mix or mic and mix. Like so many people say here: "it's just another tool" and I think 1 of the advantages of putting a mix through this will be to give a PSM a preview of what post my be able to do with isos (if that's how they're working) later. Analogous to having a Lut on a video monitor (to give a graded look) when cameras are shooting in a log profile. If Producers think this will 'fix' their crap location, more fool them. If they're half as good at their job as they expect us to be they know this wont be the case. 

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codyman   
6 hours ago, Derek H said:

Until zoom starts making really good quality wireless mics that rival Lectro or Zax for like $300 I think we'll be alright. Also, the kit an experienced mixer brings to a job cannot be compared to what a producer can put in a shopping cart on B&H in 10 minutes time. A smart producer will realize that and not try to play that game. I hope.

I agree.  I'm not too worried about someone making a "quality" $300 wireless kit because unlike these modern "0 and 1 bit bucket recorders" of today which can easily be manufactured overseas for cheap, quality wireless is something that isn't magically created because you have someone that makes that process not easy nor cheap... that being the Federal Government (FCC).  And hell hath no fury like the FCC scorned...

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The Zoom stuff is a great achievement in bang for buck.  I agree that it takes advantage of a lot of new circuit designs and manufacturing methods to make something that works well and is crazy cheap compared to the lowest budg machines of the same track count etc just a few years ago.   The next Great Frontier will be in wireless, or whatever wireless becomes in the bad new world of FCC auctions, White Space Devices and overcrowded spectrum.  Standing by....

Some years ago here Glen Trew declared that PSMs should do whatever they want to do to make their mixes work, now that we have PF isos as part of most specs.  I agree.  So if you guys want to go for it with your Cedar boxes then knock yourselves out.  If you think that your client might actually want to use a mix that you make in the field (instead of going to the PF isos), then please consider rolling a "non-NR" version of your mix too, in case someone downstream disagrees with your NR choices.

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Personally, it seems little different in principle from a Super cmit which has been used and approved on this forum for a while, except DNS is potentially more effective

Actually, in principle Cedar and SuperCMIT are very different. The Cedar offer full-spectrum noise reduction based on an analysis of the input signal. Too much of this and you'll get artifacts.
The SuperCMIT does not apply noise reduction per se, it works like an enhanced shotgun mic. The DSP works to increase directivity, attenuate surrounding noise and reduce the rear lobe. It does this just like a regular shortgun, which also attenuates surrounding noise and probably wouldn't be called a noise-reduction tool, either. The difference is that the Super has got the second capsule to help increase the effect and to provide more information for the processor (this is very simply put, I don't want to wander off topic too far)
The direct signal at the front capsule is the same as the unprocessed signal, but the added benefit of what I listed above (higher directivity and so on). This makes the mike less capable in terms of "noise reduction", compared to the Cedar, but less problemtic to use in terms of sound quality

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daniel   
35 minutes ago, Constantin said:


Actually, in principle Cedar and SuperCMIT are very different. The Cedar offer full-spectrum noise reduction based on an analysis of the input signal. Too much of this and you'll get artifacts.
The SuperCMIT does not apply noise reduction per se, it works like an enhanced shotgun mic. The DSP works to increase directivity, attenuate surrounding noise and reduce the rear lobe. It does this just like a regular shortgun, which also attenuates surrounding noise and probably wouldn't be called a noise-reduction tool, either. The difference is that the Super has got the second capsule to help increase the effect and to provide more information for the processor (this is very simply put, I don't want to wander off topic too far)
The direct signal at the front capsule is the same as the unprocessed signal, but the added benefit of what I listed above (higher directivity and so on). This makes the mike less capable in terms of "noise reduction", compared to the Cedar, but less problemtic to use in terms of sound quality

Those are important distinctions and I should be more careful with my language and generalisations (while playing devil's advocate). That said, the deployment of either would be for similar reasons and both risk producing unwanted artefacts.

Re Radio Mics: the future and price of this kit may have some surprises over the next few years. Even if our markets are variously protected with tariffs and complex compliance issues, in general, radio technologies are globally 1 of the fastest growing technologies and specifically there are other markets that can afford to develop their own production equipment. A few years back I turned down a a complex job because the producers didn't want to pay for the RMs I was advising we needed and wanted me to use a certain brand or RM I was not comfortable with in the context, not least as it was for me an unknown brand with spec I didn't think would be up to requirements. This brand is now making digital Radio Mics. They might not be in your market yet but things change. I also recently heard some large funding was secured to develop another NR technology by an already established company so maybe DNS will have some competition soon. I don't want to derail this Zoom thread either but my point was the low price of these "bit buckets" may open up new possibilities for us in terms of what other tools are viable for us to use.  

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18 hours ago, daniel said:

" having limiters and LPF after the ADs is not so good for lip sync. Consumer line level only through TRS is inconvenient."

Having limiters and LPF after the ADs is not so good for anything.

I don't have an F8 (or any Zoom for that matter) but the F8's 1/4" TRS line inputs will handle nominal +4dB. The main and sub mix outputs are -10dBV.

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daniel   
On 10/12/2016 at 4:01 PM, Rick Reineke said:

Having limiters and LPF after the ADs is not so good for anything.

I don't have an F8 (or any Zoom for that matter) but the F8's 1/4" TRS line inputs will handle nominal +4dB. The main and sub mix outputs are -10dBV.

Good news about the line inputs (my bad). Shame about the line O/Ps. Agree also the post AD limiters and HPF are not so good for anything but I was thinking about the context in which 'lip sync' is usually recorded as opposed to most other 'wild' contexts where there is usually a bit more time and latitude for work rounds.

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Just wanted to chime in on cold weather operation.  So far two twn hour days in -30° C and working great.  I'm in Canada on the 60th parallel Fort Smith, NT.

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16 hours ago, OutlandTrav said:

Just wanted to chime in on cold weather operation.  So far two twn hour days in -30° C and working great.  I'm in Canada on the 60th parallel Fort Smith, NT.

Out, 2 twenty hour days? Is that what you meant?

And how is timecode holding up? Any idea?

Sincerely, Martin 

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Just now, Constantin said:


Look at your keyboard, the letter next to the "w" is your hint

Constantin, Clarification is why you ask questions. I am glad you are not an air traffic controller. 

Sincerely, Martin 

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Constantin, Clarification is why you ask questions. I am glad you are not an air traffic controller. 

So am I, believe me.
Often it's good to ask questions, but sometimes just a little bit of extra effort will answer many questions (especially where typos are involved). Look through this forum and you will find many questions where the response frequently was: with a bit of effort you can answer this question yourself.

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1 hour ago, Christian Spaeth said:

Constantin and Martin, sitting on the tree... sorry, I'm sorry, you guys. 

Christian, You didn't dare go the analogy via parable route, did you?

Sincerely, Martin 

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Boomboom   

... considering the qwerty vs azerty keyboard differences and both of you probably read from left to right, it'd be an "e" or an"x" and that certainly doesn't clarifiy the whole thing to me.

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... considering the qwerty vs azerty keyboard differences and both of you probably read from left to right, it'd be an "e" or an"x" and that certainly doesn't clarifiy the whole thing to me.

Well, I was specifically addressing Martin, who most likely would be looking at a qwerty keyboard (unlike myself, as I am looking at a qwertz keyboard), the letter would be an "e", replacing the "w", easily turning the word into a "ten". But - I'll concede - "twenty" hours would be possible, too. In a larger context it doesn't really matter. The F8 held up well in freezing temperatures for an extended period of time. That's what really matters. Now I will still not get one.

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16 hours ago, Constantin said:


Well, I was specifically addressing Martin, who most likely would be looking at a qwerty keyboard (unlike myself, as I am looking at a qwertz keyboard), the letter would be an "e", replacing the "w", easily turning the word into a "ten". But - I'll concede - "twenty" hours would be possible, too. In a larger context it doesn't really matter. The F8 held up well in freezing temperatures for an extended period of time. That's what really matters. Now I will still not get one.

 

 

16 hours ago, Boomboom said:

... considering the qwerty vs azerty keyboard differences and both of you probably read from left to right, it'd be an "e" or an"x" and that certainly doesn't clarifiy the whole thing to me.

Hello all, I was just going to be both impressed and feel sorry for him if he had to do 2 twenty hour days in a row. Or 1 twenty hour day in a row. And no, I still won't take a Zoom anything for free. I think those of us who say that, might sound like snobs. And I know I don't mean to. I think if someone is trying to get started in this business, I wouldn't like to think they didn't buy their mixer and start out on their path to success because I said Zoom is low quality, and then they subsequently decided instead to work at walmart. Not that their's anything wrong with that, as long as you want to work at walmart. It's just that this site is a mix of levels of not just experience and of ability, but of the type of "thing" we are all recording. If someone is here learning how they can best record their garage band, then yes, if it leaves you more money to buy higher quality mics, go get a Zoom. If the zoom fails, you guys and girls can practice for another week, and record next Saturday night instead. You should buy whatever total package will give you the best sound for your budget. That's all that counts. If you have 5 thousand, pounds, dollars, whatever, it doesn't make sense to spend 4000 on a recorder. The only thing that counts is what the best package for sound is that you can get. If your drummer is diabetic, and you spend 100,000 for sound equipment, and he falls over from lack of sugar, you should have spent a buck on a candy bar, because all that equipment you bought is now sitting there while the ambulance totes off your drummer. And Constantin, I have learned to save all this stuff I write, so if the site fails to upload it, I won't have to retype all of this.

Sincerely, Martin 

 

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9 hours ago, MartinTheMixer said:

 I have learned to save all this stuff I write, so if the site fails to upload it, I won't have to retype all of this

 

Off-topic but I hear ya. I also hate to re-type when something goes south (pilot error or otherwise). I use the browser add-on, 'Lazarus Form Recovery'  It automatically saves entries for a user set amount if time. Has saved me much time and aggravation.

Available for Mac/Win Firefox and Chrome browsers. Don't know about Safari.  Not for IE.

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IronFilm   
On Wednesday, January 11, 2017 at 2:56 AM, MartinTheMixer said:

Hello all, I was just going to be both impressed and feel sorry for him if he had to do 2 twenty hour days in a row. Or 1 twenty hour day in a row. 

I did a 23hr long day yesterday...  thanks to during the day working on a short film, then getting called up at the last minute to do sound for the pick up shots that night for a feature film.

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On 11/4/2016 at 5:20 PM, ZoomOfficial said:

The F8 should not ever overwrite a file. I suggest doing a test to replicate the recording process as closely as you can and confirm you do not have any issues. If it happens again please email me so we can investigate further. Hopefully there was some other human error at play or it was a one time occurrence. If you would like to discuss further your can also email me. sgreene@zoom-na.com

Yesterday I lost a 40min take because of this zooms software design error (it overwrites same name takes). Both my f8 and f4 recorders have the same issue. I haven´t had any problem with other brand recorders like sound devices or roland in my 10 years of experience (I have a sound devices 664 too). I´ve just lost this tv program because of this issue, very dissapointing. (Sorry for my english level)

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pszilard   
On 02/07/2017 at 7:06 PM, AZKUE SOINUA said:

Yesterday I lost a 40min take because of this zooms software design error (it overwrites same name takes). Both my f8 and f4 recorders have the same issue. I haven´t had any problem with other brand recorders like sound devices or roland in my 10 years of experience (I have a sound devices 664 too). I´ve just lost this tv program because of this issue, very dissapointing. (Sorry for my english level)

If you set the file naming to be date-time, then this could never happen. I would consider this to be Best Practice anyway.

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10 hours ago, pszilard said:

If you set the file naming to be date-time, then this could never happen. I would consider this to be Best Practice anyway.

 

Absolutely not. The file should be named like the scene. 45b-T01 or whatever.

However, the folder in which the project's files reside should either be called like the current date (have one folder per day) or like the project. Ideally, you'll have one project folder and inside that several daily folders. 

Don't know if the F8 allows for this. 

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IronFilm   

It is good practice to have project folders (or even daily folders) as if you stick EVERYTHING in the same space you will run "out of space" eventually (before you run out of space on the card itself! As there is a max in number of files it can reference in a single folder location. A bit weird... but I've experienced this problem myself with the F4). 

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