Electronic sound reports

[Sound Intuition]

How many people are using electronic sound reports and what programs are you using? Is this something that you have adopted on your own or has it been requested by production and do you do a paper backup? I am doing a studio show that will run until December so this will provide me with an opportunity to play around with different programs. I am thinking of using Movie Slate even though I wont get the full benefit due to the fact I'm using a Deva VS a SD product.

 I know there has been some previous discussion regarding this but is it just a toy to have on the cart and one more thing to hang off of it? So far production has not requested the use of shared meta data on set and probably wont for some time which gives us the chance to figure out what direction to go. It also brings up the question again "who pays for this"? It's not likely a bargaining tool when it comes time to deal with PM's and package rates either. If your doing a two camera show whether it be a feature or series is it neccessary to have all this shared meta data. I could see if you were doing a large multi camera based show where the cameras were perhaps not shooting on the same set or proximity, but what ever happened to the "kiss" method of doing things. Just a thought as I sit here between lighting set up's.

 

Bill

[John Blankenship]

What about just using the Deva's built in sound report function?  It works fine.

 

 

[rich]

I like Movieslate a lot, and have been using it for a few years now.

It has several advantages for me.

I can list the microphones / sources for each track

I can choose different colours for some parts, making it easy to identify wildtracks etc.
You choose how your reports are sorted, so you can, for instance, at the end of the job compile a report of the whole job sorted by scene - useful if you use the UK slating system.

Have you seen my handwriting? I dont spend 20 minutes at the end of the day re-writing my notes.
I can put a picture in the sound report as well, which amuses me.

 

[Sound Intuition]

John:

 I do that now. At the end of the day I burn the the CF card with the sound file which the DIT puts on the drive for post. But do I not have to then use Wave Agent or similar to email the file to production for the DPR? Now I hand a paper copy to the AD's for production and post.

[Philip Perkins]

In my world there hasn't been any paper for many years--no one to give it to and anything I want post to see has to be in a digital folder with the files and be copyable and uploadable w/o any extra effort.  I don't work on jobs complex enough to need the MovieSlate thing, but it seems like the bomb for big drama type shows with a lot of characters, notes, complex scene numbers etc, esp if you can do the full "Lightstone" type deal where camera, scripty, sound and maybe DIT are on the same network etc..  For simpler stuff a WaveAgent report works very well, and if you have a computer with multiple USB ports you can even combine info from the audio of multiple recorders into the same report (did this last night--3 recorders worth of cards).  The built in reporting of some recorders works well too.

p

Edited June 29, 2015 by Philip Perkins

[Sound Intuition]

Philip:

 I read Richards review on the Movie Slate site. Other than the threads from the guys on "House of Cards" and the interview on Ambient's site for the syncing on "Fury Road" I'm not sure who else has initiated this in their workflow (syncing of meta data). The use of an iPad at sub zero temps seems a little iffy to me. I get enough comments from post using a pencil when the ink won't flow.

 

[Jeff Wexler]

"How many people are using electronic sound reports and what programs are you using? Is this something that you have adopted on your own or has it been requested by production and do you do a paper backup?"

Never requested by production in my case and I kept doing handwritten sound reports up until about 3 or 4 movies ago. I use MovieSlate and I wouldn't want to ever go back to handwritten.

"I am doing a studio show that will run until December so this will provide me with an opportunity to play around with different programs. I am thinking of using Movie Slate even though I wont get the full benefit due to the fact I'm using a Deva VS a SD product."

I may be wrong on this but at the present time I don't think MovieSlate is integrated with any of the commonly used recorders, Sound Devices, Zaxcom, etc. (though I know it will be integrated with Deva32 when it comes out). To the best of my knowledge, MovieSlate is not "on the network" even for those using Sound Devices Dante equipped recorders.

"So far production has not requested the use of shared meta data on set and probably wont for some time which gives us the chance to figure out what direction to go. It also brings up the question again "who pays for this"?"

In the case of MovieSlate being used by most of us as a log only device to create sound reports, no one in production is going to pay for this. I suppose if production had been demanding that you be part of an all inclusive multi-departmental metadata system (like the upcoming Ambient Lockit Network) and you didn't have a necessary component, then you would expect production to pay. MovieSlate is not that system, yet, and if production is not demanding it and you want to use it, it's all on you.

"It's not likely a bargaining tool when it comes time to deal with PM's and package rates either. If your doing a two camera show whether it be a feature or series is it neccessary to have all this shared meta data."

You're mixing up "shared metadata systems" (which really aren't in even limited use yet) with your original question about electronic sound reports.

I will add that my experiences are only on long form feature films (movies) because that is all I have been doing.

Edited June 29, 2015 by Jeff Wexler

[Joshua Anderson]

I'm almost finished with my third TV season using MovieSlate. I switched from my older, regular sized iPad to an iPad mini and bought a mount to attach it to my cart. Works out great for me. I bought the time code module, but still don't use it. I like the preset options for Mics, Characters and frequent Notes. If we reshoot something, I can get the roll number from our script supervisor and check which mics we used the first time around. Plus, I too, don't have the best handwriting. 

One thing I had to figure out was internet access to email the reports out. A little Mifi was an extra cost as well. 

I don't see any reason to go back to paper reports. I send them out to Production, post-production, assistant editors and the transfer house. 

Josh

[Jeff Wexler]

As Joshua has pointed out, one of the big benefits of electronic reports over handwritten is that they can go out to multiple places --- it seems like on every production there are more and more people that seem to think they should be getting a sound report moments after they say "wrap".

[Myk Farmer]

I haven't used handwritten notes since 2005. I started out using FileMaker with a custom template for sound notes that others in my country ( New Zealand ) were using. I found it to be easier than handwritten. I went through 3 net books, one got dropped, one was drowned by an assist who moved my cart during heavy rain and one wore out. 2 years ago I changed to Movieslate on an iPad mini. With the right protection I have used it in rain , snow and dusty conditions with no major issues. I have had minor problems with software bugs but Movieslate have responded very quickly when they are pointed out , one time fixed with a new release overnight. The iPad mini fits in my recorder bag for over shoulder use and I find this easier than paper. I don't use the inbuilt systems on my recorders ( Cantar 2X , Zaxcom Fusion ) as the iPad is easier to type on. I mostly do drama projects and to email to multiple people is very useful , on my current TV series I have 15 recipients for my notes , I'm sure they don't all read them but it makes them happy.

[RPSharman]

Until Movie Slate has an option to put more takes on one page, I'll stick to my paper reports. Why? On every show for the last 3 or 4 years I ask, "What do you do with the electronic reports?" I am told, we print a copy to put in the office folder. We send a copy to editorial. Editorial makes a copy for their folder and gives a copy to the editor. Another copy, at least one, gets made for sound editorial. 

My paper reports hold 50 takes per page. So if 4 copies are made, 5 pages. Electronic reports hold far fewer takes per page, so use more pages. When printed and copied, way more paper is wasted.

In addition, it's one more thing to think about. One more thing on my cart. One more thing to go wrong, get lost, get broken, get behind on doing.

I do own the program. I was required to use it on a show I subbed in on. Used it on my phone. It was pretty good. Emailed it away. 

My current work flow is this... I send my paper report in with sound files. It is scanned and put up with all the camera reports and dailies notes. People can look at the scan or print it if they must. Done. I use a single sheet. No carbon-less copies. Production doesn't get a report. They only ever needed them in order to track how many rolls we used. No longer an issue. 

[Joshua Anderson]

I'm sure a lot of our productions take the benefits of paperless and turn it into a mess of wasted paper like Robert describes. But I like that I can email the reports out, partly because I don't send anything directly to a transfer house anymore. I hand CF cards to a DIT or camera loader. 

I do wish MovieSlate fine tuned the formatting. Sometimes my header is on one page and the list of takes is on a second page. Seems odd to me. But I do like that I can go back and search through emailed reports or the data in the app. That's helpful and convenient. 

[Constantin]

I actually use my recorder's iwn sounmd report option. I have a keyboard on my cart so typing the notes is even quicker than on an iPad. Plus with the keyboard it's way quicker to enter scene names, character names and whatever else. At wrap I hook up my laptop to my recorder and copy the sound files and the sound report file. The latter is also on the CF card which I hand over to the DIT. From my laptop I email the report to whoever wants it. For emailing I use Apple's hotspot option, so my laptop uses my phone's internet. This would work with an iPad, too, by the way. Everyone is fine with the .csv file these days, so there's no need to go via WaveAgent. 

On my current project all they want is the report on the CF card, so I don't even need to email it at all

[Jan McL]

I cause the 788t to create a CSV report in addition to the MovieSlate digital report.

What I like is that my notes are accurate and clear and I feel more free put in a bit more wry prose than with paper reports.

Shooting a picture of the street construction right next to set and including it with the report makes me feel better sometimes.

Robert's comment above has caused me to gag a bit about the printing...ew. Dang.

Post has indicated they really love it.

Got the Mini right out of the chute; smaller = better.

I too wish they would finesse the formatting relative to the header (always on its own page) and maximize number of lines per page to reduce # of pages to print.

[Marc Wielage]

Shooting a picture of the street construction right next to set and including it with the report makes me feel better sometimes.

Funny and sad! I always do an end slate on scenes with noise issues just to make it part of the record, pretending it matters.

[Whit Norris]

MovieSlate is what I have used since 2011. Just hit send at the break or wrap and everyone has it. I like the fact that I can write a lot of notes if needed for picture and sound post as well as have information as to what mics are used and so on. I work off of an iPad with a bracket on my cart. In preproduction I put in all of the emails of everyone that needs it. No carbon copies to worry about or having to make copies. Also at end of a film I can send a complete file with all of the reports to sound post. The production office, picture and sound post really like it!

 

Whit

[Phil Rosati]

I've been using Sound Report Writer for about two years. I have an old ass ipad and Movieslate won't run on it. But, I really love it. Even with a newer ipad I'd still choose SRW. I like the ease of use, and layout of the program. It's all very straight forward. I, too, have my ipad mounted in a RAM mount and then mounted to the 80/20 of the cart. I can move it around and adjust it to see if I'm sitting or standing, or move it out of the way altogether if need be. No clipboard to locate or stow anywhere. No pens constantly getting lost. It's worked really well for me, and productions have all been happy with them. My handwriting is downright shameful, so it's been a real lifesaver/timesaver for me, and like Jan said it enables me to write more and expand on situations more than I normally would on handwritten notes.

[Sound Intuition]

Well you can teach an old dog new tricks.

I bought the iPad mini on sale the other day got the app and the sound dept plug in. It is a very cool little program that has a bit of a learning curve. One thing I'm wondering is when I back up to an external drive now I make a folder for each episode then in that folder I have a separate folder for each day of the episode. Is this possible in Movie Slate? And How do I put the day # in the sound report? I can see the episode field but I  also want to put in the day,

Bill

[Nate C]

I have thought about getting Movie slate for a while but have chosen to go with paper reports for a couple of reasons: I hand write quicker then I type and have neat hand writing, I'm not the most adept person when it comes to computers and the problem solving process involved, using Sound Report Writer didn't work for me, It's another item I have to find batteries for (often find myself working on locations without mains power). 

Rain, wind, where did I put my clip board, damn that was the red pen not the black and we all know the rest of the annoyances with paper reports, is why next drama I will switch over to movie slate. 

For my corporate and TVC clients the report my recorder creates is fine.

 

[BudRaymond]

I use Wave Agent and save a copy onto the media at wrap. All the metadata has already been entered onto the files through the recorder, and I don't need access to the internet at wrap.

Then the dailies crew sends out an email to whomever wants it. I figure they'll always have access to the internet.

 

Bud.

[RPSharman]

At the end of the day, especially now that I'm in England where you're not paid for wrap time, the last thing I want to do is copy files and make reports in other programs, etc.

I also don't have a laptop or iPad hooked up, as power isn't always available and a smaller cart is desirable.

Pull my report out of clipboard, rubber band to CF case. Go home.

 

[Glen Trew]

I started using Movie Slate about 5 years ago when I suddenly found myself filling in for a sound mixer who needed a day off. Movie Slate was already established on that show, so I had no choice but to learn it. I haven't handwritten a sound report since (except will filling in for someone who still did). The end result is better in every regard. My reports are much more accurate, with much more information, much faster, and everyone who needs a sound report gets one instantly. Also, for archival purposes, move slate is much faster than paper and helps when trying to remember how to invoice for a la carte items like playback and earwigs.

A common resistance is that getting timecode into the system is a nuisance. However, while it is sometimes helpful to have an approximate time of day for the various scenes and takes, timecode is not necessary, and never needs to be very accurate regarding stops/starts.

Philip, I assume the reason to assume MovieSlate isn't helpful for simple productions is because of a low track count, and high track counts are made easier with MovieSlate, but that's far from being its primary advantage. A simple 1-track production still benefits from MovieSlate (or equiv app).

I've found the iPad mini to be the best size, but I've use the standard iPad (larger than needed), and leaving home with out my iPads, I've found that the iPhone is fine except that it looks like I'm texting.

So... E-reports. it's the way to go, even if just for the sound department (there's no need to wait for the other departments to share in the fun).

gt

[Ze Frias]

I started using Movie Slate about 5 years ago when I suddenly found myself filling in for a sound mixer who needed a day off. Movie Slate was already established on that show, so I had no choice but to learn it. I haven't handwritten a sound report since (except will filling in for someone who still did). The end result is better in every regard. My reports are much more accurate, with much more information, much faster, and everyone who needs a sound report gets one instantly. Also, for archival purposes, move slate is much faster than paper and helps when trying to remember how to invoice for a la carte items like playback and earwigs.

A common resistance is that getting timecode into the system is a nuisance. However, while it is sometimes helpful to have an approximate time of day for the various scenes and takes, timecode is not necessary, and never needs to be very accurate regarding stops/starts.

Philip, I assume the reason to assume MovieSlate isn't helpful for simple productions is because of a low track count, and high track counts are made easier with MovieSlate, but that's far from being its primary advantage. A simple 1-track production still benefits from MovieSlate (or equiv app).

I've found the iPad mini to be the best size, but I've use the standard iPad (larger than needed), and leaving home with out my iPads, I've found that the iPhone is fine except that it looks like I'm texting.

So... E-reports. it's the way to go, even if just for the sound department (there's no need to wait for the other departments to share in the fun).

gt

+1 to everything

[soundtrane]

Have been using the Cantar X2 PDF sound reports since 2007... 

[pkautzsch]

I use a keyboard to enter metadata like scene number, track names, and comments right into the 788T files. At wrap, I have the recorder create a CSV on all drives used (usually INHDD and external CF). This report is in the actual audio file daily folder and therefore usually copied with the audio. From there, it's data wrangler's job to distribute.

I think this comes closest to what we did in the old Nagra or DAT days: handing in a tape with a report sheet. Nobody expected us to make and distribute copies of the reports ourselves.

My newest addition is a silent flexible keyboard. I can enter comments right during the shot, if I don't need both hands to mix. CSV is a format that's easily searchable, can be merged and processed in many ways, and doesn't take up much space. That's why I and the post houses I usually deliver to prefer it over PDF.