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OMF from Premiere to Pro Tools


Joe Riggs

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Hello,

Trying to figure out the best, cleanest way to export an OMF from Premiere to Pro Tools.

I'm noticing that due to how Premiere tracks handles audio files, even mono files,
will end up with a Left and Right duplicate. So if you have 6 mono tracks, you'll end up with 12 tracks in 
the OMF (each original track duplicated with a left and right channel).

This not only creates more neadless clutter in the timeline but it also increases the file size, thereby making encapsulated OMFs
hit their 2gig limit much sooner. Does Pro Tools have an issue linking files from a referenced OMF vs an Encapsulated one?

A potential workaround is to open the omf in Audition, delete the duplicate channels and re-export the omf. 
However, Is there any potential pitfall to deleting these tracks? I'd hate to delete something that wasn't a duplicate.

I don't have Pro Tools, so I'm hoping someone who does and has worked wth OMFs from Premiere can shed some light?

Thanks

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I have worked with many OMF files from FCP (7 and before) and Avids, but not from Premiere AFAIK. The OMF format inherently converts stereo files to two mono files, so this may be what your seeing. So if a (former stereo) file is now two mono files (and has the same audio on both channels) it would be SOP to remove a duplicate channel/file. Hopefully you have a sound report to facilitate the ID.
I would make a copy of all the original unpacked audio files before starting in case something is mistakenly deleted..

 The 2GB max file size usually requires multiple OMFs (for instance Tracks 1-16 / 17-24) or.. by time segments. Otherwise, ask for non-embedded audio... separate audio files. I don't know if this an option with Premiere.

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If you are going to PT post v10 try exporting AAF from PP, instead of OMF.  PT seems to like it better.  I've gotten a lot of PP exports lately from current PP version and they worked  fine, OMF and AAF.  If you continue to have issues check out AA Translator, a great utility made by very helpful folks.  http://www.aatranslator.com.au

p

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Hi Rick,

I know what you mean regarding stereo files, but it does the same thing with Mono files...I think this is just a bug in premiere.

 

 

HI Philip,

From my understanding AAF, doesn't work well from Premiere, so I've always gone OMF route. Am I mistaken?

When you get OMFs from Premiere, you don't end up with duplicate tracks?

 

 

 

 

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Joe,

The reason you are seeing duplicate mono tracks is how you are setting up tracks in Premier.  Set them up as MONO tracks then PT shouldn't get duplicates.

I get Referenced ones now, with the Audio FIles in a folder.  Then I get the ENTIRE file and no 2GB limit for the OMF.
The only weird thing is in PT, you translate the OMF, it will ask you "Where the heck are those files to which this container ALLEGEDLY refers?".  So, you select MANUAL find.  Then point the process the very audio file folder you've been provided.  Then, when the "Linking Options" Dialogue box comes up, select "Find by Name".  Then be sure to DESELCT "Match Format" and "Match Duration".  You'll get a warning about Linking to files which are too short which may result in Male pattern baldness and expanding midrift, but ignore it.  It's fine.  Select "OK" and it should all relink.

Not sure why Premier OMF's work this way now, but once you adopt this workflow, it all works a treat!

 

Edited by minister
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On big shows it isn't that big a deal for the exporting editor to export the files "trackwise"  (like OMF 1= tracks 1+2, OMF 2 = tracks 3+4 and so on).  This stays under the limit usually and makes for less gnarly exports than with AAF (which contains reams of irrelevant data that often confuses the target apps).

philp

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Like Phillip said, I just exported as tracks since post sound told me they don't mind the duplicates. It was more of a small pet peeve of mine, because of the additional clutter and the need to export multiple OMFs per reel because of the duplicates.

As Minister said, the way Pr handles audio is why it makes duplicates but I still didn't have success when I tired changing the preferences to mono and copying the edit to a new sequence. On the next project, I'll start my project with mono before importing everything and we'll see how that one goes.  

 

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As Minister said, the way Pr handles audio is why it makes duplicates but I still didn't have success when I tired changing the preferences to mono and copying the edit to a new sequence. On the next project, I'll start my project with mono before importing everything and we'll see how that one goes.  

 

That's the key!  You can't change it after the fact, you have to start with a fresh mono setting...  It's weird, but, whadya gonna do?

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hey there, I am a dialogue editor and when I received sound from an editor, 30% of the time there will be duplicate mono files for each mic option (not a big deal at all because I can just delete them).

One thing I would advise with premiere is to be cautious not to rename audio files. A few times now, due to a Premiere feature, I have received an OMF which had all audio files renamed (i.e. auto-rename file name by premiere: "A012C007_140315_R6NB.mov - Merged-05" file name original name [scene / take #]: "046AT04"). If this happens then we are forced to rebuild the dialogue (much bigger fish to fry).

Hope this all helps even though I'm late to the party here. :) 

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The only weird thing is in PT, you translate the OMF, it will ask you "Where the heck are those files to which this container ALLEGEDLY refers?".

Same situation translating Premiere reference OMFs to Nuendo, which sort of suggests it's Premiere's bug. At least with Nuendo, it just takes one click on the media folder for everybody to get sorted out.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hey Craig,

Thank you VERY much for taking the time to post this! While this video is VERY helpful for most video people, there are a few things that need to be addressed here, which are common mistakes that video assistants or editors make when exporting from Premiere:

1. The most important thing is to NEVER allow premiere to rename the audio files. I cannot stress this enough. There are many people on multiple online forums having to deal with this issue that Adobe will not change. The basics is essentially, imagine all of your video files being renamed... you will have no idea where they came from and what they are for... this is what happens to us in Audio Post. We are then forced (we have no choice) but to obtain the EDLs and rebuild the show ourselves from scratch (takes about 2 days). For low budget shows it is impossible to do this because we have no time / money so we are forced to blindly move forward with what the picture editor gave us (no alt takes can be found, ADR becomes a MUST for the bad takes that are in the OMF, etc etc). Any way, I don't know what it is that causes the renaming of audio files within Premiere (as I am clearly not a picture editor) : - )  but that function really makes the audio post process near impossible for the dialogue editor.

2. When exporting, it's best to export an AAF, that way you will not run into the problem (with an OMF) of the 2GB limit. Pro Tools accepts AAFs... in fact, it's a newer / better technology any way. - Easy fix there!

3. At our studio we require the audio to be exported from premiere as 48kHz (or 48000 in premiere) at 24-bit (this is an industry standard and was covered in the video)

4. Always use the "Encapsulate" function in Premiere. Never send an audio files folder as this messes with pro tools. Every time an editor sends over an AAF (or OMF) we have to have them resend because pro tools will not relink the files. In Avid software this is called "Embedded" audio within the OMF/AAF. 

5. Handle Size - It's very interesting to see the Premiere export window, as it makes total sense to me now that I can see what an editor is using to export everything. We always tell our editors (assuming they are using Avid or FCP) to send us with 10,000ms handles. It all makes sense now when premiere editors tend to send us VERY small handle lengths. So, to clear the air on that, 10,000ms = 10 seconds = 240 frames (for 24fps features) or 300 frames (for 30fps tv shows). As a dialogue editor I CANNOT STRESS ENOUGH how important this step is for me. It's almost (not quite) as important as file naming convention. while 100 frames might seem adequate, I assure you it is not. That is only a 4 second handle. The reason for needing 10 second handles is very technical, but ultimately we need to dig through the file and try to find blank space (where actors are not talking) that we can cut together to create adequate filler pieces of sound (AKA room tone). This is near impossible to do with only 4 second handles. This is why we stress a minimum of 10 seconds, which I now know for premiere people is 240 frames (for features). In this particular example, the frame rate is 29.97 which means the handle lengths will only be 3.33 seconds (ouch for us dialogue editors).

 

I really hope this helps people who are using Premiere. It is extremely difficult for your audio post friends to deal with renamed audio files and small to no handle sizes. This has been a very educational process for me to get this written down as I have learned so much about Premiere in the past 30 minutes and I hope this will be helpful for every video editor out there who deals with this on a day to day basis.

It is my hope that no one thinks I am angry or rash when writing these thoughts down. Too often audio post people are seen as very technical and do not understand creative. The reality is, I am here to help make this movie (or TV show or commercial) come to life and by collaborating with editors / assistant editors, we can really make these shows stand out and become the best that they can be. I look forward to any questions / comments you might have. Thanks again for adding me to this group and I look forward to working with you all.

- Micah

 

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Thanks.  Re AAF:  it is newer.  Whether it is better is very debateable.  We find it far less reliable re the various apps sending and receiving it, and my friends at AATranslator have mentioned that the spec is barely a spec at all, overly complex in a way irrelevant to audio work and much tweaked under the hood by the various apps that use it.  This is why, for instance, AAFs from Avids work differently than those exported by ProTools and so on.

p

 

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Thanks Philip, I am merely stating that an AAF is a better option for someone who works in Premiere. From Avid and FCP we receive OMFs regularly and they work great. Audio really does not need all the metadata associated when the editor send their product in. We strip all volume automation and clip-based gain (an Avid only thing) any way and start from scratch. OMF or AAF does not matter on the audio side, just so long as which ever is chosen is actually able to provide the desired outcome. I have come to find, for me, that both work out the same in the end. However, if Premiere is truly limited with an OMF, then why not send the audio post guys an AAF instead?

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Thanks Craig. I completely understand that and was just providing my thoughts in case other editors came around to the post.

Philip - Agree to disagree in my opinion (that is if equipment / software is up to date... or 1 generation behind). I would definitely agree with older software versions of DAWs but not the newer. Especially from Avid to Avid. Seamless workflow has been my experience. I'd be interested in knowing how it causes you problems because I have not experienced it with Avid to PT10 or 11

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How about rebuilding the session from original field tracks? Does exporting an OMF or AAF leaves the TC with the files? Or you use EDL files for that and a tool like Titan or EdiLoad?

No. Unfortunately Premier, like FCP, does not maintain metadata through the OMF/AAF export process. Really sucks, because Pro Tools has some extremely useful, time saving editing functions that utilize that metadata. Unfortunately Avid is the only edit platform that maintains all metadata through export (that i know of).

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No. Unfortunately Premier, like FCP, does not maintain metadata through the OMF/AAF export process. Really sucks, because Pro Tools has some extremely useful, time saving editing functions that utilize that metadata. Unfortunately Avid is the only edit platform that maintains all metadata through export (that i know of).

I'm curious if linking to field recorder files based on timecode would work then? (there's a checkbox for it in match field recorder files). 

Worth noting to everyone that field recorder workflow is Pro Tools HD only. 

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I'm curious if linking to field recorder files based on timecode would work then? (there's a checkbox for it in match field recorder files). 

Worth noting to everyone that field recorder workflow is Pro Tools HD only. 

Either way, the original timecode metadata isn't in the omf files, so you're out of luck. I did a test with this a while back when the feature was still fresh, but can't remember if you could use only one identifier with success. I believe you need more than one. It's so rare that i get a project that has used the proper workflow i don't know for sure.

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