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Cameras getting weirder! - Sony A7S with Atomos Shogun


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Was confronted with this little rig the other day - Sony A7S with Atomos Shogun.

Claims to do timecode, but without any input/output terminal, however it does have a Genlock BNC !?

Timecode optionally embedded in HDMI output

Sets whether or not to layer the TC (time code) information on the output signal via the HDMI terminal when outputting the signal to other professional-use devices.

but then says -

When [cE08B.pngTC Output] is set to [On], the image may not be output properly to the TV or recording device. In such cases, set [cE08B.pngTC Output] to [Off].

 

Good job I took my timecode slate.

 

Plus the Shogun can -

Audio: The Shogun can record 12 channels of digital audio embedded in the SDI signal, and 8 channels of digital audio embedded in the HDMI signal.

Super......!

It does have XLR ins for two channels though, and proper controls for audio in via the touchscreen, which is fairly easy to navigate.

Scrnsht-_2015-07-22_at_10.32.36.thumb.jp

Edited by pindrop
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Atmos is made in Australia, so I don't know how their support is for America. But you can contact them on their website and ask about how timecode is handled:

http://www.atomos.com/support/

I agree, too many of these outboard boxes make timecode and audio much too difficult. It should be completely intuitive, well-labeled, and obvious.

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Thanks Marc, I haven't come across a way to deal with or interact with (jam) timecode embedded in HDMI.

And when the Sony manual itself says -

When [cE08B.pngTC Output] is set to [On], the image may not be output properly to the TV or recording device. In such cases, set [cE08B.pngTC Output] to [Off].

It doesn't seem very helpful or hopeful!

Anyone?

Edited by pindrop
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Shogun doesn't have separate timecode input but relies on embedded timecode from camera.  Since A7s doesn't have timecode input, there's no way to jam to external reference, only in-camera free-run.  If a professional timecode workflow is a must, they selected the wrong hardware.  Would either have to change the camera to something with a timecode input or use the Convergent Design Odyssey 7Q+ which does offer an LTC input.  Shogun is a prosumer product only with respect to timecode.

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Thanks Tom, that confirms what I discovered on the day, but I'd done a quick bit of research the night before when I was told what the camera was going to be at the last minute, and had thought to bring my timecode slate along which was used. I pointed out that there was not, as far as I could see any way to jam the camera setup. They were happy with using the TC slate.
I've never used PluralEyes but that might have been an option. Presumably PluralEyes can handle any number of tracks in poly wavs? (I was recording 7 track poly wavs with a Nomad, boom and six radios)

Can PluralEyes be told which track in a poly wav is it's best bet for syncing?

That's useful to know about Convergent Design Odyssey 7Q+ I was not aware of that.

Couldn't quite work out if SD do something that does 4K with timecode in/out?

Also it's puzzling to me why the Atomos Shogun has a Genlock in BNC, but no timecode?

Edited by pindrop
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before I sold my SD PIX240, I was using the A7S' HDMI output to feed the PIX240, set the TC value on A7S, PIX 240 receives the TC from A7S through HDMI signal, I was using a QRXIFB(receive TC from PIX240) unit with two TRX900LA(receive TC from QIFB), rec-run or free-run both worked flawlessly. 

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  • 6 months later...

I had a different experience. When i tried to input TC from TCBuddy to Shogun ... The TC display on Shogun kept switching between TC input thru Genlock & the one from camera thru HDMI. After switching the Shogun on/off finally the TC from TCB appeared & got recorded. But the TCR being the one playing out from TCB lagged by few frames from the ones recorded onto Shogun. This was check as I shot TCBuddy's screen onto shogun & later on played back to check the sync... 

whats the ideal way to connect Ext TC generator to Shogun. Since it was my 1st time on with such a setting so bit confused.

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2 hours ago, Sound Man said:

I had a different experience. When i tried to input TC from TCBuddy to Shogun ... The TC display on Shogun kept switching between TC input thru Genlock & the one from camera thru HDMI. After switching the Shogun on/off finally the TC from TCB appeared & got recorded. But the TCR being the one playing out from TCB lagged by few frames from the ones recorded onto Shogun. This was check as I shot TCBuddy's screen onto shogun & later on played back to check the sync... 

whats the ideal way to connect Ext TC generator to Shogun. Since it was my 1st time on with such a setting so bit confused.

The only way to get timecode into the shogun is through the camera that then feeds the Shogun. The Shogun doesn't have a dedicated LTC input. The camera that is being used therefore has to have the ability to receive timecode from an external device. The Sony A7s does not have that ability which seems to be a common camera used with the shogun. 

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7 hours ago, Sound Man said:

The latest Firmware 6.51 actually enables Shogun to receive LTC from Genlock's BNC port...

Good to know that they added that. To bad they didnt think of adding timecode when they initially designed so they could have had a dedicated LTC input instead of sacrificing the genlock input.

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  • 4 months later...

TC is our issue up to the TC connector of the camera.  Ask how much the cam folks really want you to be poking around in the menus of their camera trying this and that?  If they can't make (or help us make) the TC aspects of their device work then they need to learn how to do this or get diff hardware.  Meanwhile, here's a jammed TC slate.

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