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Sennheiser AVX (with sound clips)


ninjafreddan

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Hi guys

The new Sennheiser AVX system arrived at my studio today. :-)

Just want to share my first comparison - DPA 4060 via cable versus DPA 4060 via Sennheiser AVX into SD664, low-cut disabled.

Listening to the low-end rumble there's a subsonic filter in the AVX-system, but it's rather low so it's not a problem.  *EDIT* According to the manual the transmitter has a frequency response of 50Hz - 20kHz, which shows there's a low-cut filter engaged when a microphone is connected. When a line level cable is connected the frequency response is 20Hz - 20kHz *END EDIT* The transmission exaggerates the sibilant high-end a little bit, but it's easily fixed in post. The mid-range is a tad flat in comparison, but now I'm picky. What I like about the sound is that it doesn't sound like a radio transmission to me, it doesn't have that little bit of mid-range haziness/flatness that I believe all analogue RF systems have to some degree (digital hybrid or not). I've felt the same way using digital systems from Sony and Shure - very close to a straight wire.

It's going to be fun watching the faces of camera men, when I plug in the receiver dongle to their cameras. :-)

Some of them with most likely grab their iPhones and put in an order on the spot.

The transmitter is a little bit smaller and slimmer than a G3-transmitter and it feels more sturdy, though the rechargeable battery has plastic housing. I wonder if the mute button can be disabled, have to check the manual. * fingers crossed * :-)

The latency is just a little bit less than 19 ms, as specified. So basically close to half a frame.

Attaching two sound clips for your enjoyment. :-)

 

Cheers

Fred

DPA_4060_into_Sennheiser_AVX_then_into_SD664.wav

DPA_4060_cabled_into_SD664.wav

Sennheiser AVX system.JPG

Sennheiser AVX and G3.JPG

Edited by ninjafreddan
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Can multiple receivers receive the same transmission? For example, you want to send the mix to 2 cameras with the same transmitter? (My current usage scenario for G3s and also ek300 IEMs)

Nope, it's a two-way connection. The radio signal strength of the reciever can be viewed on the transmitter. I believe the transmission power increase when the signal strength is low.

So, it's not to be used as camera hop to more than one camera at a time.

 

Cheers

Fred

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How about two systems as a 2-channel hop? Have they specified how many systems can be expected to work at a time? Also, are there any input adjustments on the transmitter or is it all with that auto-leveling system they were advertizing? Wondering if it takes line input at all or if you have to attenuate if you were to use it as a hop.

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"How about two systems as a 2-channel hop?."
- According to Sennheiser... up to twelve systems... VMMV . .( plus or minus)

"Are there any input adjustments on the transmitter or is it all with that auto-leveling system they were advertizing."
 - "Automatic Sensitivity Adjustment"... whatever that means. No level adj. I  can see.in the manual.  .Don't know if that means the pumping kind of AGC .... It's basically designed for non-audio folks.
 

"Wondering if it takes line input at all or if you have to attenuate if you were to use it as a hop."
- Same as the G2/3..SK100 bodypack, the 3.5mm TRS ring terminal is line. (-10dB)

http://en-us.sennheiser.com/global-downloads/file/5578/AVX_Manual_06_2015_EN.pd

Edited by Rick Reineke
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Wondering if it takes line input at all or if you have to attenuate if you were to use it as a hop.

It takes line levels up to about +12dBu according to the manual - pretty much the same max level as G3 and SK2000 - so a 10dB padded cable should work just fine. Hopefully I get the chance to try it out tomorrow.

It's going to be interesting to hear how the AGC works at line level slowly fading audio in and out. Listening to the background noise of the lav mic, I couldn't detect any gain-riding going on, so my guess is that it analyzes the RMS- and  PEAK- level of the audio above the background level and adjust itself appropriately. When there's a sudden peak, it will bring it down and quickly go back to the previous gain-level. It's definitely not the kind of crazy-pumping-in-yer-face AGC that most older cameras have. Not at all.

Actually, I have a second system too and my plan is to try them out as a two-channel camera hop.

 

Cheers

Fred

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"It's going to be interesting to hear how the AGC works at line level slowly fading audio in and out" that coupled with 19ms delay may make for an interesting  listening experience.

Recorded audio on my SD664 faded in and out and sent via AVX to my main studio ADC for auditioning in Nuendo along with the analogue output from the 664, of course. ;-)

And also compare the AVX to my SK2000 hop. The latter will easily win the range contest, and AVX will be the better sounding. Question is how much better it will sound.

The delay can sure play tricks on you, though 19ms really isn't that much (except when auditioning your own voice on headphones).

 

Cheers

Fred

 

Edited by ninjafreddan
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Thank you for the samples!

Cable still sounds the best, AVX is a little thinner and esssier but overall pretty good.

I couldn't hear any AGC :)

 

Would love to hear how the AT system 10 compares to the Senneheiser, anyone has samples?

Couldnt find the specs on how much delay they produce either...

 

Franky

 

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Thank you Fred, that's what I've been waiting for since Sennheiser announced the system.

 

I compared the two recordings. This is what I found out:

- Great quality, not AGC audible!

- AVX cuts at 20 kHz

- sibilants are a bit exaggeraed

- I discovered a drop out when you say "cable" at 0'19

- phase is turned. Sennheiser did this on all their analogue systems, why do they do it again?

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I compared the two recordings. This is what I found out:

- Great quality, not AGC audible!

- AVX cuts at 20 kHz

- sibilants are a bit exaggeraed

- I discovered a drop out when you say "cable" at 0'19

- phase is turned. Sennheiser did this on all their analogue systems, why do they do it again?

Thanks!

You are right, the phase is yet yet both my XLR->TELE are wired the right way. I discovered it yesterday when I was recording more sound clips with both a 2000 and a G3 system, both were out of phase. I'm going to redo my cables and flip the phase. Thanks for noticing! :-)

Sibilants are a bit exaggerated for sure, also audible when using the AVX system as camera hop.

 

Cheers

Fred

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I've been writing reviews for quite a long time, in various magazines, so I just love doing shoot-outs. So here's a couple of sound clips comparing the AVX system with a Sennheiser 2000 system etcetera.

The signal-path is a DPA 4017B shotgun mic -> SD664 with low-cut at 80Hz -> cable / AVX / SK_EK 2000 / G3 -> Antelope Pure2 ADC at 48kHz.

As you can hear in one of the sound clips, AVX is level sensitive and not at all as 'smart' as I thought it would be. To me it sounds like it pretty much has a set Threshold where it starts compressing excessive input level. I've set the outputs from my mixer to -10 which is fine for the SK2000 and the G3 transmitters I normally use as camera link. In comparison the output to the AVX transmitter had to be attenuated 20dB more, otherwise the internal compressor stomped down the level. 

Let me know what you think okay.

And thanks for putting up with my voice and my English. :-)

 

Cheers

Fred

02_DPA_4017B-664-AVX-PURE2.wav

01_DPA_4017B-664-PURE2.wav

05_DPA_4017B-664-SK_EK_2000-PURE2.wav

04_DPA_4017B-664-AVX_10dB_higher_input_level-PURE2_take_2.wav

03_DPA_4017B-664-PURE2_take_2.wav

06_DPA_4017B-664-AVX-PURE2.wav

07_DPA_4017B-664-SK_EK_2000-PURE2.wav

08_DPA_4017B-664-SK_EK_100_G3-PURE2.wav

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Very informative!

I wonder why AVX sounds and behaves like the (very good) analogue Sennheiser 3000/5000 system by compression, sibilants and noise gate. And even phase flip :-)

 

I heard no digital artifacts. Would it somehow be possible to hear you surrounded by traffic noise / bird and wind noise in the park / people talking?

 

Greets Mungo

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2nd the above from Mungo... also, range and hits.

I'd like to know how far it goes, line of sight, and what it sounds like when range runs out. I'm also curious about range with obstacles?

I don't know how you're going to force hits but do they pop, hiss, or does the audio simply drop?

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I wonder how many systems can be used simultaneously?  Since it is a frequency hopping system, it must at some point degrade performance as there are less individual free channels to hop to and at some point, theoretically be impossible to operate more than x units.  Does x=4 or does x=256?

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi guys

Sorry for the delayed answer.

Now I've done a range test comparing the AVX system with a G3 system.

Here you can listen to how it sounds when the AVX system drops out and comes back again.

I'd say the advertised expected range of about 30 meters in line-of-sight is pretty much correct. The G3 system has a bit longer range and can with degraded sound quality handle almost twice the distance, but it's not pretty sounding at that distance.

The short key ring test at the end of the sound clips sure shows which system that sounds the best. :-)

Due to the length of the sound clips I FLAC encoded them, but also uploaded smaller MP3's.

 

Enjoy! ;-)

Fred

10_Sennheiser_AVX_MKE2_SD664_80Hz_lowcut.flac

09_Sennheiser_G3_DPA_4060_SD664_80Hz_lowcut.flac

10_Sennheiser_AVX_MKE2_SD664_80Hz_lowcut.mp3

09_Sennheiser_G3_DPA_4060_SD664_80Hz_lowcut.mp3

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  • 1 month later...

Hi folks,

According to Sennheiser, we can use 12 AVX systems in Europe and 8 in USA, why ? I don't know... if you have an idea...

I've seen that on these videos, they are very informative : (especially the third episode)

 

Thanks again ninjafreddan for your report.
I calculate the delay between these 2 files 02_DPA_4017B-664-AVX-PURE2.wav and 01_DPA_4017B-664-PURE2.wav
and I found 46 samples - less than 1ms, not close at all to 19ms said by Sennheiser. Were these files in sync ?
Ninjafreddan, how many avx systems are you using at the same time ? Are you still happy to use them on the field ?
Most of the time with MK2 or other lavalier microphone ? Do you use them for hops too ? One battery is enough for one day of working ?

Lots of questions and thanks for your answers :)

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According to Sennheiser, we can use 12 AVX systems in Europe and 8 in USA, why ? I don't know... if you have an idea...

my idea about this is that in the US a higher bandwidth per channel is allowed than in Europe. I think it's 200kHz vs 125kHz or so. So naturally, you get more channels into the same frequency span in Europe than in the US

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Hi folks,

According to Sennheiser, we can use 12 AVX systems in Europe and 8 in USA, why ? I don't know... if you have an idea...

No, my guess is that has to do with the frequency range of the DECT standard and that it differs in different regions of the World. Maybe someone here knows better.

I calculate the delay between these 2 files 02_DPA_4017B-664-AVX-PURE2.wav and 01_DPA_4017B-664-PURE2.wav
and I found 46 samples - less than 1ms, not close at all to 19ms said by Sennheiser. Were these files in sync ?

I've corrected the delay for better audition when switching back and fourth. The delay actually is close to 19ms and seem to stay there.

Ninjafreddan, how many avx systems are you using at the same time ? Are you still happy to use them on the field ?

I've used two at the same time without any problems. They do fine in the field, but the range can't compete with my analogue RF systems. On the other hand, the sound quality can.

Most of the time with MK2 or other lavalier microphone ? Do you use them for hops too?

I've mostly used them as camera hops. But they sound fine with the MKE2 Gold lav. I have experienced some digital radio interference when using DPA 4060 lavs. Strange thing is that a colleague of mine had no problems using his DPA 4060's with a couple of AVX systems. We both have the updated 4060 mics.

Of course, Sennheiser can't test their system with every lav mic on the market, but they have made their own lav mics more resilient to digital radio interference and I haven't experienced any problems using the MKE2 Gold lavs. 

 One battery is enough for one day of working ?

For the transmitter, yes....for the dongle receiver, no. It's kind of been a little bit of a stress moment having the receiver stuck on the camera as hop and not knowing for how long it will last. Filming documentaries, I can't have equipment die on me, so my solution has been to use a hirose to USB connection and then power it via a USB connection. There's always the possibility to power it from a larger USB-battery, but it would be great if Sennheiser made a larger battery as an option.

Lots of questions and thanks for your answers :)

All in all, the AVX system is aimed for camera men and such. It's a bit too basic for a sound engineer, me thinks. Still, it's a good sounding system.

You should try it out.

 

Cheers

Fred

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