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ADVICE please! Buy a 744t or Zoom f8?


Freeman

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Hello Rick,

The 1/4" input is for Line Level Sources.

Thanks

Thank you Samual
.HiZ scares me. In fact, I just looked at the manual which states:
28kΩ for the 1/4" TRS  line input. That said, I would prefer mic/line switch to use the XLR.

Another question while I hopefully have your attention:
Is line level just attenuated and sent back through the mic pre, or does it by-pass the mic preamp (like on the Tascam DR-680)? .. see Tascam block diagram below.
Thanks Again

680_mic-line.jpg

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The combo TRS+XLR connectors are a fact of life in the prosumer+MI world--everyone there wants to be able to plug in their guitars.  They could be handy under some rare circs in our world I guess, but I have all the adapters I need already.  I have no info on if those connectors are less reliable that a normal "3F" style chassis XLR, but I have found over the years that A: the quality and durability of the mic input connectors on a location machine (esp one used in a bag) matter A LOT, and that B: cheaper machines generally use cheaper connectors, which fail more often and are hard to fix.   This brings up some questions for our Zoom rep here: can you tell us about the service depts you've set up to work on the F8?  Is there a number an owner can call and talk to a real knowledgable person, like in real time, from the set?  Is there a rush service possibility?  Will you be offering loaner-rentals while an F8 is being repaired?  Have you had any luck with sales to rental houses, so that an owner could grab a backup or a 2nd machine for a big job?  

After another look at the F8 manual I see that they do have a strategy for data entry and mix surface--an iPad.  Not my pref, but I'm an old guy.  The iPad control thing is how nearly all new lower-end digital mixers etc have gone, that is just how this gear is made now and most users I talk to like this.

p

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  • 4 weeks later...

Any chance of Bluetooth keyboard support in the future?

Hello Greg,

This is a possibility in the future. It is a comment we have heard a few times. We will take it into consideration as we look to improve the F8, as well as future products.

The combo TRS+XLR connectors are a fact of life in the prosumer+MI world--everyone there wants to be able to plug in their guitars.  They could be handy under some rare circs in our world I guess, but I have all the adapters I need already.  I have no info on if those connectors are less reliable that a normal "3F" style chassis XLR, but I have found over the years that A: the quality and durability of the mic input connectors on a location machine (esp one used in a bag) matter A LOT, and that B: cheaper machines generally use cheaper connectors, which fail more often and are hard to fix.   This brings up some questions for our Zoom rep here: can you tell us about the service depts you've set up to work on the F8?  Is there a number an owner can call and talk to a real knowledgable person, like in real time, from the set?  Is there a rush service possibility?  Will you be offering loaner-rentals while an F8 is being repaired?  Have you had any luck with sales to rental houses, so that an owner could grab a backup or a 2nd machine for a big job?  

After another look at the F8 manual I see that they do have a strategy for data entry and mix surface--an iPad.  Not my pref, but I'm an old guy.  The iPad control thing is how nearly all new lower-end digital mixers etc have gone, that is just how this gear is made now and most users I talk to like this.

p

Currently, we do not have any repair centers. If something is wrong with you F8 you can call the dealer you purchased it from (many of whom have extensive tech knowledge of our products) or call us directly. If there is a malfunction with your F8 we have a rapid replacement policy. We will put a hold on your credit card, rush you a new F8, and ask you to ship your broken F8 once received.

We have heard from many rental houses that have expressed interest in having F8's available. Right now there have been limited supplies in the market. But I am sure you will see more rental houses with them soon.  

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  • 3 months later...
On 9/2/2015 at 1:33 AM, ZoomOfficial said:

I also hear your feedback on the 1/4" connectors and will keep it in mind as we look to improve the F8 as well as future products.

Will it ever be possible for firmware updates to allow software switchable mic/line inputs? Or are there hardware limitations on this happening?

I'm interested in purchasing an F8 as a back-end recorder for a front-end mixer. But without XLR line inputs this becomes a seriously bulky and basically useless endeavour. 

I appreciate you coming on here and answering questions!

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On 9/4/2015 at 5:51 PM, Philip Perkins said:

The combo TRS+XLR connectors are a fact of life in the prosumer+MI world--everyone there wants to be able to plug in their guitars.  They could be handy under some rare circs in our world I guess, but I have all the adapters I need already.  I have no info on if those connectors are less reliable that a normal "3F" style chassis XLR, but I have found over the years that A: the quality and durability of the mic input connectors on a location machine (esp one used in a bag) matter A LOT, and that B: cheaper machines generally use cheaper connectors, which fail more often and are hard to fix.   This brings up some questions for our Zoom rep here: can you tell us about the service depts you've set up to work on the F8?  Is there a number an owner can call and talk to a real knowledgable person, like in real time, from the set?  Is there a rush service possibility?  Will you be offering loaner-rentals while an F8 is being repaired?  Have you had any luck with sales to rental houses, so that an owner could grab a backup or a 2nd machine for a big job?  

After another look at the F8 manual I see that they do have a strategy for data entry and mix surface--an iPad.  Not my pref, but I'm an old guy.  The iPad control thing is how nearly all new lower-end digital mixers etc have gone, that is just how this gear is made now and most users I talk to like this.

p

The questions about service departments, rush services, loaner-rentals, and even rental houses seem mostly academic given the cost of the F8 is so relatively low that a professional user could afford to buy 2 or 3 or these recorders for a similar price of a single pro RM or a boom, mic and rig, etc. Or to put it another way, as a professional, is it better to own 1 'pro' recorder (which may still have issues) or 2-3 of these recorders (aside from the fact the recorder is so small that to carry a spare would also be easier)? In terms of a production schedule, pulling a duplicate recorder out of case has considerable advantages over making phone calls to service departments (in different time zones), waiting for a rental house deliveries (in office hours) or even re configuring the rest of the kit for a different recorder. 

Myself, I am still undecided. On the occasions i need something better than what i own dr680/sd302/SQN, I hire a nagra vi (quite big and by todays prices, relatively expensive :). I would love to justify owning an R4+ but i think i would still need a back up and the size of the F8 is 1 of the big attractions for the type of work I do. Some of my clients want the brand names, other don't care and I think this has as much to do with the decision as anything else, Ie. getting the bookings. From a personal point of view (as i indicated in the kit wishes for 2016) a compact, singular analogue pre-amp and limiter would make the F8 a no brainer for me. But regarding the OP, why is it F8 vs 744 and not the 633?

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  • 2 weeks later...

At first I would have voted to buy the 744t. Mine was one of the earliest ones and lived a HARD life in my documentary bag. That thing was unstoppable (after SD fixed all the early problems...)

But that Zoom looks awesome!!! Are there any reports as to the long term reliability of recent Zoom products?

My friend used the Zoom H4 extensively while we were working in Haiti after the earthquake in 2010. It served him well in those difficult conditions. My 744t was working well too in those poor conditions.

Other than a new drive every so often the 744T didn't need much maintenance at all.  It's still one of my favorite recorders.

I wonder if Zoom tests their stuff to the same degree that Sound Devices does?

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57 minutes ago, PaulAdlaf said:

At first I would have voted to buy the 744t. Mine was one of the earliest ones and lived a HARD life in my documentary bag. That thing was unstoppable (after SD fixed all the early problems...)

But that Zoom looks awesome!!! Are there any reports as to the long term reliability of recent Zoom products?

My friend used the Zoom H4 extensively while we were working in Haiti after the earthquake in 2010. It served him well in those difficult conditions. My 744t was working well too in those poor conditions.

Other than a new drive every so often the 744T didn't need much maintenance at all.  It's still one of my favorite recorders.

I wonder if Zoom tests their stuff to the same degree that Sound Devices does?

Zoom probably don't test "to the same degree" as SD but all recorders can have issues and an operator can have 2 Zooms and still have enough money to buy redundancy for other kit elements (so when they fall face first into a big puddle the show has a better chance of still rolling :-). Further, in this day and age, what is the point of a 744 (without a mixer up front weighing you down, using up batteries and giving you something else to worry about). Ie. why would someone not consider the 633 as the most logical alternative to a Zoom F8 (or visa versa).

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  • 10 months later...



Zoom probably don't test "to the same degree" as SD but all recorders can have issues and an operator can have 2 Zooms and still have enough money to buy redundancy for other kit elements (so when they fall face first into a big puddle the show has a better chance of still rolling :-). Further, in this day and age, what is the point of a 744 (without a mixer up front weighing you down, using up batteries and giving you something else to worry about). Ie. why would someone not consider the 633 as the most logical alternative to a Zoom F8 (or visa versa).

I agree!!

I think the 744 maybe too old!!
F8 and 744 both without mixer fuction, but the F8 have separately mixer, or Ipad app for mixing!
633 is the alternative, but 3 times expensive!
I have used the F8 with 442 mixer. But now if i need a small lightweight recorder i use just the F8. I have tested the mec pres, between F8-442, and i think the F8 pres not bad ones.

It is true, i have SD688, and the F8 is only backup recorder, or lightweight run and gun recorder, with 2 receiver, and one boon with cable.


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5 hours ago, Csaba Major said:


I agree!!

I think the 744 maybe too old!!
F8 and 744 both without mixer fuction, but the F8 have separately mixer, or Ipad app for mixing!
633 is the alternative, but 3 times expensive!
I have used the F8 with 442 mixer. But now if i need a small lightweight recorder i use just the F8. I have tested the mec pres, between F8-442, and i think the F8 pres not bad ones.

It is true, i have SD688, and the F8 is only backup recorder, or lightweight run and gun recorder, with 2 receiver, and one boon with cable.


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Csaba, I will get in trouble for this, but, Zoom is just deluxe Radio Shack. If one is serious about sound, then one buys serious equipment. I don't use Sound Devices, but there is no way that I would buy a Zoom over a pro mixer/recorder. Does Zoom have a place? I guess. It's just not a place I would want to go. The bigger problem I see, maybe, is that one who buys this is going to pair it with cheap wireless, cheap lav mics, cheap booms mounted on mop handles, on and on.  I guess, that if you need to make a feature on a $10k budget, meaning cameras and everything, I guess you could use Zoom. I guess.

Sincerely, Martin 

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Csaba, I will get in trouble for this, but, Zoom is just deluxe Radio Shack. If one is serious about sound, then one buys serious equipment. I don't use Sound Devices, but there is no way that I would buy a Zoom over a pro mixer/recorder. Does Zoom have a place? I guess. It's just not a place I would want to go. The bigger problem I see, maybe, is that one who buys this is going to pair it with cheap wireless, cheap lav mics, cheap booms mounted on mop handles, on and on.  I guess, that if you need to make a feature on a $10k budget, meaning cameras and everything, I guess you could use Zoom. I guess.
Sincerely, Martin 

Ok!

Its true.
But i use F8 with 2 lectro 200receivers, or lectro srb reciver, ambient boom with rycote zeppelin and MKH60.


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+1 for the 744. It's bulletproof.

I went with a used one for my first recorder purchase and couldn't be happier with its performance. Sure, you may need a higher track count at times - but I've found the 744 to satisfy a high percentage of jobs I've been taking on, and have been renting a 633 when it's necessary.

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If you have the $, Maxx is an amazing amount of mojo in a 744-sized box.  But if you have that much $ you can also look at SD633, and maybe a used 788, certainly a used 664.  For someone who doesn't have much $ 744s are a good deal used now.  I often urge people to read the 744 manual carefully, many of its features get overlooked, moreso if you are willing to do a little outboard accessory-making.  Ditto Maxx, BTW.

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6 hours ago, Philip Perkins said:

If you have the $, Maxx is an amazing amount of mojo in a 744-sized box.  But if you have that much $ you can also look at SD633, and maybe a used 788, certainly a used 664.  For someone who doesn't have much $ 744s are a good deal used now.  I often urge people to read the 744 manual carefully, many of its features get overlooked, moreso if you are willing to do a little outboard accessory-making.  Ditto Maxx, BTW.

Hey Philip, 

Wanted to see if you could point me in the direction of any outboard accessories you mention with the 744 I could look into for improving workflows.

I've been through the manual several times and have found the machine's output and track routings to provide a good amount of flexibility for my needs at the moment (using a 744/302).

I'm sure I'll find more ways to modify the set up as gigs call for them, or as I dive into the manual again haha. Would be interested to hear from your experience.

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I made my own: box w/ attenuator pots for inputs 3/4 (line outs from RXs), an output switcher for the tape-out (L/R/both) to feed Comtek and other TX, some in-line transformers for the main outs for feeding cameras, a headphone switcher box to switch between recorder HP and camera return, a few other more specialized things.  I made this stuff over several years one thing at a time--you could combine them all into one box more compactly than what I have.  Easy stuff to do--no active circuits, just some drilling and soldering.  If you thought about it you could probably come up with better and more elegant solutions just as cheap.  With this stuff I was able to stop using my 302 and roll almost all the time with just the 744 and these funky extras.  My back is much happier thus.

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1 hour ago, Philip Perkins said:

I made my own: box w/ attenuator pots for inputs 3/4 (line outs from RXs), an output switcher for the tape-out (L/R/both) to feed Comtek and other TX, some in-line transformers for the main outs for feeding cameras, a headphone switcher box to switch between recorder HP and camera return, a few other more specialized things.  I made this stuff over several years one thing at a time--you could combine them all into one box more compactly than what I have.  Easy stuff to do--no active circuits, just some drilling and soldering.  If you thought about it you could probably come up with better and more elegant solutions just as cheap.  With this stuff I was able to stop using my 302 and roll almost all the time with just the 744 and these funky extras.  My back is much happier thus.

Very cool. Thanks for sharing. Yep, I find myself taking the 302 out of the bag when I can (even if it's just for a couple scenes), and really enjoy working with only the 744 in my bag. This is good food for thought.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/9/2015 at 9:02 AM, ZoomOfficial said:

This is a possibility in the future. It is a comment we have heard a few times. We will take it into consideration as we look to improve the F8, as well as future products.

 

Any news on Bluetooth keyboard support in the future? Or over USB? (so that it would work with the Zoom F4 as well!)

As easy metadata entry / integrated note taking, would be a crucial feature I'd be looking for when I next buy a recorder this year. 

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IronFilm - USB keyboard feature will be available with the release of FRC-8 control surface (late January) - you'll be able to connect standard US/JP keyboard using FRC-8's USB port, and software function is already included in the 3.0 firmware update for F8 (and already in the F4). No info on a bluetooth keyboard function, but I believe you'll be able to use a portable keyboard with USB-dongle.
Many useful features/fixes added in current firmware - including headphones presets, saving/loading custom unit settings profiles, HPF 10-240Hz etc. As a F8 user - I'm pretty impressed with Zoom's firmware updates.

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6 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Any news on Bluetooth keyboard support in the future? Or over USB? (so that it would work with the Zoom F4 as well!)

As easy metadata entry / integrated note taking, would be a crucial feature I'd be looking for when I next buy a recorder this year. 

Now take notes and the metadata entry in the Zoom F8 is very easy (On par with the best recorders), but with keyboard will be more faster (Encoder writing is slow)

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