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Have a little complaint


Audio Engineer

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One problem I see happening in NY right now is that people are building up a lot of experience working non-union reality sound mixing work and not narrative work. Once they get into the union, the want to keep mixing and making equipment rental. Who can blame them? But they aren't prepared to work on a narrative show and they usually don't know that they aren't. Nor do they want to commit to one. 

It's busy in NY and some mixers are needed, but what we really need are Boom Operators and Sound Utility people. I've been fortunate to have two guys with me the past 5 years who both know how to boom and how to work on narrative shows. But I know other mixers who have had troubles crewing. I think apprenticeships, internships and education about working in the sound department on narrative TV shows is important for NY. 

I shouldn't have said union reality shows in my last post. It's all reality TV that is different than narrative TV. 

Josh

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 I think apprenticeships, internships and education about working in the sound department on narrative TV shows is important 

As a total outsider to the US union world, I am surprised to read that to join a union you need to work x amount of hours on jobs outside of the union. Aren't they thereby indirectly promoting and "legitimizing" non-union shows? 

The quote from Joshua I think describes the way into a union along with junior and senior memberships. Shouldn't a union strive to take everyone under their wing?

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Agree, Mr. Anderson.

The "Cultures" as between reality and narrative are significantly different in inexplicable ways. The only real way to learn is to be there under more experienced peoples' watchful eyes for quite a while.

I've had reality guys with little narrative experience say a few words on set and blow shit up. Politically. Sometimes takes days to put all the pieces back together. Painful.

Sure Constantin, unions should take everyone in under their wing I suppose, but historically 52's operated--among many other things--as a kind of valve controlling labor supply. If there are 50 jobs at any given time in NYC and there are 250 mixers... A kind of protectionism. Other unions/guilds operate differently. Coming out of the recent lawsuit, daresay 52 is changing. How it will change remains to be seen.

Getting in the union during my time in the biz has ever been a catch 22. Sounds like it's getting easier in NY. Offering/taking classes is one way to begin but in no way qualifies as getting good at anything. As I've said here before, I did a lot of free days earliest on. Just showed up. Kept my mouth shut. Gleefully did coffee and lunch runs. Was deeply grateful to clean cases, cables, take inventory (got to touch everything). There's no class that will teach you how to ingratiate yourself with another. How to make yourself indispensable. Either you get that or you do not. If you don't get it you probably won't be exceptionally successful. 

Safe to say Atlanta, NY and other freshly-incentived regions "suffer" with the influx of jobs/newly-minted laborers as the markets quickly expand. We have a lot of people coming in without narrative experience and blowing shit up. A lot of people having worked as reality mixers get in the union and expect to mix narrative work. Some have actually done it. Others, not. The room often smells of frustration and fear. 

I got to do it once I thought I was ready and made it part of my utility/boom deal with the mixer in advance. If he didn't feel good about putting me forward to mix 2nd unit he wouldn't have and I would never have known, but he did. Another rung.

One rung at a time.

Figure it out.

It will require thought. Planning. Focus. Sacrifice.

Undoubtedly more later.

Thanks to the OP and early posters for keeping this thread in a tone that is helpful.

Took OP guts to show his fear / frustration cards publicly as an opening gambit. That flavor of emotive expression is historically viewed as weakness on set, and welcomes tough attention. If you take the tough attention as the lesson it's meant to be then show up later able to publicly put into practice the lesson, there's a hard-earned rung. If it goes over your head, prepare to bleed. You will now have to work twice as hard/long to step up. But that's NY.

Camera departments in NYC have a strict hierarchy of career trajectory it might do sound workers well to study.

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Thanks for all the insight everyone.  As a non-union NYC mixer, I can relate to the OP's frustration in trying to figure out how the union operates but obviously he/she didn't go about it the best way.  Many of us would jump at the chance to work our way up, but I guess finding those opportunities is the hard part.  

I have over 800 hours mixing commercials and films but don't know any union members personally.  If anyone in NYC can use an extra set of hands, I'd be grateful for the opportunity.  I play a mean blues guitar too if that sweetens the deal, haha. 

Why don't you know any union members personally? Don't ask that to be mean, it's a serious question you and anyone else who aspires to be in the union needs to ask themselves.

Next assignment: make a list of every NYC union member you do know. Don't even know any names? How on God's green earth would you find out that information? Hmmm???

Fact is, when push comes to shove on long form projects, utility people are the ones with the most time and influence to get someone in the work door. What that means at first is day playing, getting to play last-minute hero. Don't screw that up and they will call you again.

My phone number's publicly posted above. Why is the phone not ringing?

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  • 3 weeks later...

Just thinking out loud.... 

I've wondered about the 800 hours too. I'm not sure I have ever worked on an indie with pay stubs. It's all invoice and get a check with not stub on it. I have a lot more than 800 hours as a sound mixer on reality TV with proper payroll and stubs and whatever, but it's such a different world. I wonder if having credits from mixing a dozen "features" is good enough to count towards the 800 hours. 

I can't be the only person in that situation. I didn't apply this round because it sounded like rules were changing, and I didn't want to take aerial lift certification classes never knowing when the freeze was going to be lifted, only to find out somebody realized mixers don't work around those. I talked to somebody affiliated with the Philly branch last week and they said "just go up to NY tomorrow with an application and a check for $800 and I'm sure you'll be fine". um, ok. 

Edited by johnpaul215
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I talked to somebody affiliated with the Philly branch last week and they said "just go up to NY tomorrow with an application and a check for $800 and I'm sure you'll be fine". um, ok. 

I spoke with a young lady after her first intersection with the Hall during Friday's rush, pictured with permission by an electrician applicant who was there waiting at 6A and finished at 10A.

local_52_application_day.thumb.jpg.053ec

The young lady had her 800 hours but because she hadn't gotten her certificates her application was rejected. They said they "might" contact her via email in due course. Unusual and busy day at the Hall so...YMMV.

Anecdotal evidence indicates one should take the classes in advance of putting one's application in.

I don't intend to become an expert on the minutiae (and there is quite a lot of text in the instructions) but you people should. Gather your pay stubs and count the darned hours. Figure out a way to make the information clear to the person to whom you will show it. Make a "book" of it. Ask a PA who's started their book for the AD process and inquire. Use that method to keep and present your hours.

 

 

By the way, it's my understanding that this is the rule change we've been waiting for, so there shouldn't be much major shifting. It took them a year and a half to get to this. Let's hope they got it right.

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I am non-union, so I might be wrong on this -  Not every local has a required number of training hours.  In Atlanta, there are very few non-union members and there are plenty of working union sound people who do non-union work almost exclusively.  Also GA is a right to work state.

 Entertainment Unions are not a promise of work.  When I get called by Sound Supervisors for suggestions, the first thing they want is someone with a great attitude, demeanor, and work ethic.  Technical skills come second.   

Doesn't 52 have like a 9 year waiting list? And you need to have a Rabbi or the same last name as a member who has passed away? Like Tom, one of my best friends is a fourth (of 6) generation Local 3 IBEW Elevator mechanic in NYC.  He has a guaranteed work contract because it is a labor union and because of his last name. And by work I mean drinking coffee in his work truck for 4 hours a day and getting double time for every hour that starts and ends with a digit between 1 and 12. I digress.. 

If your struggling for work or fair wage, ask others in your industry how you can improve both socially, technically, and emotionally.  Network, make a few friends, and those friends will hire and drop your name.  JWSound Group and the Freelance Sound Mixer FB page a great place to start!

Edited by Dan Joseph
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I am non-union, so I might be wrong on this -  Not every local has a required number of training hours.  In Atlanta, there are very few non-union members and there are plenty of working union sound people who do non-union work almost exclusively.  Also GA is a right to work state.

 Entertainment Unions are not a promise of work.  When I get called by Sound Supervisors for suggestions, the first thing they want is someone with a great attitude, demeanor, and work ethic.  Technical skills come second.   

Doesn't 52 have like a 9 year waiting list? And you need to have a Rabbi or the same last name as a member who has passed away? Like Tom, one of my best friends is a fourth (of 6) generation Local 3 IBEW Elevator mechanic in NYC.  He has a guaranteed work contract because it is a labor union and because of his last name. And by work I mean drinking coffee in his work truck for 4 hours a day and getting double time for every hour that starts and ends with a digit between 1 and 12. I digress.. 

If your struggling for work or fair wage, ask others in your industry how you can improve both socially, technically, and emotionally.  Network, make a few friends, and those friends will hire and drop your name.  JWSound Group and the Freelance Sound Mixer FB page a great place to start!

To answer the bolded questions above, you're right that each local has its particular rules.

Hahahaha! Local 52's admissions process changed as of last week (9/14/15) as the result of the settlement of a discrimination lawsuit. The changes were crafted presumably in collaboration with the Attorney General. This is the first time the applications process has opened up since last June/July 2014 when the AG legally made them close it for repairs.

It's all new news.

Edited by Jan McL
To add laughter.
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It can't hurt to collect evidence of those hours no matter what. I have WAY more than needed, but it could take me days to prove it. It's like doing taxes. you can count your expenses as you go, or freak out every April. That's just time consuming.

The OSHA classes are what I was waiting on to see if they changed in any way as part of the restructuring, or in wake of some recent accidents on sets. Doesn't sound like it. 

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