Boom with Lavalier Multitrack?

[Jessie Morris]

I recently just added some lavalier microphones and I'm thinking of getting the 664 multitrack recorder. For 2 person scenes, I plan on placing lavaliers on both talents in case my boom can't get in on wide shots. 

 

For the wide shots my boom can't get in I'll use the lavaliers, but for the tight shots that my boom can capture, should I just solo the boom track so I don't hear the lavalier inputs on headphones and still record them as a separate ISO track or not record the lavaliers at all?

[Chris Woodcock]

What do you think you should do?

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[Jessie Morris]

I originally thought to Solo the boom so I only hear the boom but still record the lavaliers on ISO tracks as backup. Just wanted to see if anyone had any input other than what I had originally had in mind. 

[Chris Woodcock]

Jessie you are suppose to be the professional, so it's your call what you should do.

If the boom works during rehearsal then use the boom, if you want to do a radio mix then do that but you can't boom and mix at the same time.

If you want to do a radio backup then fine, just split your headphone matrix so one ear is boom and one is the radios. It's your call.

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[soundpod]

Try to think like an editor and give them tracks they will be able to cut together for smooth consistent sound. 

Dont be afraid of perspective (depending :), especially on one camera shoots.

[Jessie Morris]

Thanks Chris. After reading through some old posts in this forum going with the 788 with a mixer may be easier. With the 788 and mixer I can come out the Mixer's Main Mix to channel 1 on the 788 and set channel 1 on the 788 as post fader and my direct outs from the mixer can be set as pre fader on the 788. This way I can just mute the lavalier tracks on the mixer and their direct outs will still be recorded as prefader iso tracks on the 788. Plus, the faders on a flat mixing board will be easier than the knobs on the 688. I don't know many sound guys and in this field its hard to be around people that are willing and/or have the ability to help and I'm glad I found this forum. Sometimes just talking things out and typing it makes you realize what needs to be done.

[Jeff Wexler]

Jessie, trying to be as kind and diplomatic as I can be, I have to ask: is this the first "2 person scene" you've ever done? How long have you been using a multitrack recorder? How long have you been a sound mixer? I think it is great that people are actually giving you some answers to your extremely fundamental questions, but it surprises me that you would be asking these things unless this is your first mixing job.

[Jessie Morris]

It's not the first 2 person scene, I've done up to 3 but it was always on boom or boom's. I'm building up my equipment but still doing student films but paying and I want to incorporate lavaliers. I've read books but this was more of a specific fundamental question that I thought could have been easily answered.

[John Blankenship]

There are quick answers, but they're not as "easy" as you might think.  Being a professional sound mixer means bringing the experience to analyze a given situation, understand the client's needs, understand the circumstances, and furnish an appropriate solution -- adapting dynamically. 

If you're looking for a starting point, good booming technique is one of the best places to begin.  Work on as many student films as you can, and when your results seem to need a lav, give that a shot.  Where you're at now in your career is a good place to make your mistakes.  Learn from them.  One of the best things you can do is sit in on the audio post and learn what works and what doesn't -- and why.  Also, understand that the type of job will often dictate a different approach.

IMPORTANT:  It isn't about the gear, or what you buy!  We all like the tools, they're really cool, which is why we discuss them incessantly, but, as a beginner, learn that it is NOT about the tools.  Start with rudimentary gear -- whatever the school offers will suffice.  Until you can make that gear sing and dance, you shouldn't even be considering what to purchase -- focus on technique and skill, not the toys!

IMPORTANT:  Remember that when you're starting to think you know this stuff, you're at a danger point.  Until you have a clear vision of how much you DON'T know, you're still just barely beginning.  HINT:  It takes lots of years and a bunch of knocks to learn that.

Good luck.

 

[Marc Wielage]

It's not the first 2 person scene, I've done up to 3 but it was always on boom or boom's. I'm building up my equipment but still doing student films but paying and I want to incorporate lavaliers. I've read books but this was more of a specific fundamental question that I thought could have been easily answered.

This is a fundamental question that's come up many times in the past. Do a search in the group and you'll find a variety of different philosophies.

I think it's fair to say there are a lot of different ways to cover a scene from a dialogue point of view. Sometimes boom-only is best, sometimes wireless lavs will work better, sometimes a combination is good. There isn't necessarily one correct answer. From my perspective in post, giving the sound editor (and picture editor) multiple options can be a good thing. There are big-budget productions in which every speaking actor is wired, and there's others where one or more booms capture all the sound. And many classic films captured great sound with just one boom mic at a time. 

My personal preference is to use multiple wires but to lean on using the boom as often as possible provided the location is controllable and the boom op has ample opportunity to be in the right position at the right time. If you watch a lot of contemporary television, you can often hear entire scenes done entirely with wires... but one can make a good argument that this approach sounds artificial and lacks perspective, because the microphones are always a foot away from the actor's mouth. And another very good point is that a good boom mic could cost well over a thousand dollars (sometimes two thousand), while most lavs are just a few hundred dollars; you can generally believe the boom is a better-made mic. But the reality is that the best mic to use is the one that sounds the best at any given moment.

[Chris Woodcock]

Jessie this group is a collective of professional mixers and as such it's not a class room to train inexperienced people. Please don't take this as a personal attack it's not but there are so many posts by people who don't have the experience and it shouldn't be our place to tell all of them how to do a job that has taken many of us years and years of experience to do well.

If you level is recording student films then that's fine embrace that and learn from your mistakes but try being a trainiee on a job and learn from an experienced mixer.

DO NOT go spending thousands on buying a 788 or 664 when you don't have the necessary skills to use them. At the end of the day you are a business and if you don't have a client base and jobs to justify that kind of gear then you will be operating at a loss for a very long long time.

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[Christian Spaeth]

I think it's OK to ask a question like that, even if it seems unprofessional. The answers given are useful too, so what's the harm? Jessie, my advice: Save yourself the lavs and boom the wide.

[Tonal Analog]

DO NOT go spending thousands on buying a 788 or 664 when you don't have the necessary skills to use them. At the end of the day you are a business and if you don't have a client base and jobs to justify that kind of gear then you will be operating at a loss for a very long long time.

 

 

After reading Jesse's 3rd post it's apparent that he most likely does have the neccessary skills to use the gear in question...

 

I think it's OK to ask a question like that, even if it seems unprofessional. The answers given are useful too, so what's the harm? Jessie, my advice: Save yourself the lavs and boom the wide.

I agree. As rudimentary as his question may sound, I don't think it's deserving of some of these replies. Tough crowd here... geez. I'll make sure to remember that when I (try to) start asking questions.

[sarcanon]

I think there are a lot of people who've grown up in a culture of being told over and over "there's no such thing as a stupid question" (Millennials, I'm looking at you).

While that may or may not be true of the OP, there are certainly questions that reveal one hasn't done their homework or hasn't read the room before asking. And some people consider those questions an affront of sorts.

While I don't doubt I've asked my share of ill-considered questions here and elsewhere, I do like to think I do some amount of research to demonstrate I at least tried to find an answer myself before asking. To do otherwise conveys a sense of entitlement that rubs otherwise well-meaning folks the wrong way.

Bottom line: with a little bit of effort, search engines can answer all kinds of questions very quickly, and should be one's tool of first resort. If you strike out there, then ask the experts.

Try this: http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=sound+recording+iso+tracks