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Are you Pros still buying wireless or are you waiting??


Reid

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I should add 2 wireless. However....I have no confidence that I understand the fast moving implications of the white space issue. So could I get some feed back from you.

__Would you add to your wireless inventory if you are working in a city like Washington DC?

__I know the sky isn't falling in on the short term but what kind of window might this equipment have?

__Does this ruling open the door for existing broadcasters to spread out more than they might have before?

Thanks

Reid

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Can you use these new wirelesses right away, a lot?  Will they make your life easier, and maybe up your gear rental rate?  Do you need to replace something that isn't working at all, or not very well, esp. in light of real jobs you have booked or trends in your area? Then I'd say go for it, but talk to as many people and do as much research as you can about which blocks to go with.  Otherwise--wait, at least until after Feb 19.

Philip Perkins

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I was of the understanding that frequencies generally in the 700MHz band would be unusable.

That makes be think Sennheiser "C" group and Lectrosonics above Block 26 are in question.

IMHO if you buy new tuneable units, use channel scanning function and avoid those higher freq's you should be ok.

Unless you consider how many more users will have to migrate their WL devices to the safe blocks...crap

FROM THE FCC WEBSITE http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-08-260A1.pdf

"Wireless microphones will be protected in a variety of ways. The locations where wireless

microphones are used, such as entertainment venues and for sporting events, can be registered

in the database and will be protected as for other services. In addition, channels from 2 – 20

will be restricted to fixed devices, and we anticipate that many of these channels will remain

available for wireless microphones that operate on an itinerant basis. In addition, in 13 major

markets where certain channels between 14 and 20 are used for land mobile operations, we

will leave 2 channels between 21 and 51 free of new unlicensed devices and therefore

available for wireless microphones. Finally, as noted above, we have required that devices

also include the ability to listen to the airwaves to sense wireless microphones as an

additional measure of protection for these devices."

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I was of the understanding that frequencies generally in the 700MHz band would be unusable.

That makes be think Sennheiser "C" group and Lectrosonics above Block 26 are in question.

IMHO if you buy new tuneable units, use channel scanning function and avoid those higher freq's you should be ok.

Unless you consider how many more users will have to migrate their WL devices to the safe blocks...crap

FROM THE FCC WEBSITE http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-08-260A1.pdf

"Wireless microphones will be protected in a variety of ways. The locations where wireless

microphones are used, such as entertainment venues and for sporting events, can be registered

in the database and will be protected as for other services. In addition, channels from 2 – 20

will be restricted to fixed devices, and we anticipate that many of these channels will remain

available for wireless microphones that operate on an itinerant basis. In addition, in 13 major

markets where certain channels between 14 and 20 are used for land mobile operations, we

will leave 2 channels between 21 and 51 free of new unlicensed devices and therefore

available for wireless microphones. Finally, as noted above, we have required that devices

also include the ability to listen to the airwaves to sense wireless microphones as an

additional measure of protection for these devices."

Which channels will they "preserve"?  What if my city doesn't have two open channels in that range?  What about delivery companies, etc radios who squat in those ranges already?  Channels 2-14?  What currently available wireless systems work in this range?  There are lots of unanswered questions about frequency sensing, and who gets to register what where.  This is our problem exactly--I'm afraid that it may be necessary to re-buy all or most of our wireless gear (and ancillary wireless gear like Comtek etc) to be in compliance w/ the new rules and freq availability once the "white space" devices start to be deployed.  This makes decisions about what to buy that is available NOW very difficult.  The FCC needs to make some solid rulings with specific frequencies  in specific locales and specific techonologies SOON.

Philip Perkins

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referring to the OP's original question: " Are you Pros still buying wireless or are you waiting?? "

YES!!

 

we "pros" don't know any more than the rest of the world, and when it comes to wireless, we are just a small niche market compared to the power users, like churches, sports, concerts, and so on...

you could probably ask about the same questions about what cars to buy, or not buy, in terms of the world oil situation and the economy. how often do you buy a new car??

as has been mentioned, it isn't going to change overnight, and in the near term, things get better before they get worse.  wireless mic's are low power, so, if you are doing news, and covering every big news event,  other wireless mic's may be an interference issue, but even there, I have always been able to get severl units working on any block I've tried.

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I was of the understanding that frequencies generally in the 700MHz band would be unusable.

That makes be think Sennheiser "C" group and Lectrosonics above Block 26 are in question.

Moash.

You will be able to use the lower band of blk27,

then BL 28,29 and the high end of 27 no more.

IMHO if you buy new tuneable units, use channel scanning function and avoid those higher freq's you should be ok.

Unless you consider how many more users will have to migrate their WL devices to the safe blocks...crap

FROM THE FCC WEBSITE http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-08-260A1.pdf

"Wireless microphones will be protected in a variety of ways. The locations where wireless

microphones are used, such as entertainment venues and for sporting events, can be registered

in the database and will be protected as for other services. In addition, channels from 2 – 20

will be restricted to fixed devices, and we anticipate that many of these channels will remain

available for wireless microphones that operate on an itinerant basis. In addition, in 13 major

markets where certain channels between 14 and 20 are used for land mobile operations, we

will leave 2 channels between 21 and 51 free of new unlicensed devices and therefore

available for wireless microphones. Finally, as noted above, we have required that devices

also include the ability to listen to the airwaves to sense wireless microphones as an

additional measure of protection for these devices."

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I always love the "gang bangs!" Coordinating freqs is way too much fun! Ha! Durning the recent DNC here in Denver we had to tell the network which freqs we were going to be using. Of course I filled out the paperwork and turning in my requests for the blocks I had. And was proply told that I couldn't use a huge chunk of block 21 (the most popular Lectro block to use in Denver). In the end it was all moot for me. We got assigned to be the roving crew that sat at Starbucks all day and waited for riots at night. Not glamorous, but we got plenty of OT! And saw some interesting things. Anyhow, it worked out fine.

Now if you want to talk about serious freq coordinating let me tell you about a little show I work on called Food Network Challenge. Holy crap! Let me set the stage: take 5 sound mixers all armed with 4 channel mixers (we all own SD 442's), give 4 of them 2 talent wireless mics inbound the mixers, there is 1 show host and everyone has a Lectro reciever for him, two out bound wireless as camera hops and you got to fly a boom in as well from time to time. Oh and one wireless feed to each of the these mixers producer. Then there is the 5th mixer, same set up as the other four guys except he has a MixPre also wired into his bag because he has a 4th wireless feed inbound as well as the boom.

I know I'm confussed, but by my count that is 22 different wireless freqencies.

Here's the itchy part, we're all on one large stage. Sometime less than 10 feet from eachother. There is one guy that if I get too close to him sparks start to fly and the ghost of Guglielmo Marconi begins to rise up and bad stuff happens. OK, no sparks or Marconi, but bad stuff is putting it mildly. I hear his talent in my bag.

But after we all decide who's on what block and channel it always works out! As long as I stay away from sparky!

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I just poured a heavy scotch!

I guess my concern is this..do the potential white space users look like little mini-tv stations with fairly solid adjoining transmission blocks or spikes....or.... will our new world look more like the Chas stage with tons of small transmitters, (i.e. computers, music players, video players) that will be constantly popping on and off?  Both??

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I just poured a heavy scotch!

I guess my concern is this..do the potential white space users look like little mini-tv stations with fairly solid adjoining transmission blocks or spikes....or.... will our new world look more like the Chas stage with tons of small transmitters, (i.e. computers, music players, video players) that will be constantly popping on and off?  Both??

The white space devices, in as much as we know anything, act more or less like cel phones.  They search for what looks like an open freq and grab it, and then change freqs as a better one becomes avail (or as they move between towers).  The difference is that Googlesoft wants to use and sell services in all that unused UHF spectrum (not that there is really all that much in play or that it is actually unused) without having to buy it.  It appears, for the moment, that even the FCC doesn't really think that these devices and wireless mics can coexist very well--hence the talk about moving wireless mics to TV ch. 2-14.  For those too young to remember wirelesses in this range, this is VHF, where we were in the 1970s-80s.  You may notice that there are no modern wireless designs currently being produced for those bands.  So....."stand by to re-buy".

Philip Perkins

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  • 3 weeks later...

I do not operate on the blocks in question...  But...

There's no magic switch to be turned.....  Use your gear until the blocks become too crowded.... From the up to date info I have received...it should be many months....

  When the time comes,  either sell your units to those overseas needing good gear, or pony up @ (I think) $750  or was it $450... for Lectro to swap out the guts of your units..... then you will essentially have NEW units!!!    Or if you prefer, just buy NEW units all together...

  Until then just watch out for the big truck covered in antennas, with the guy with the federal badge on that does not exist :)  ...

It is in fact part of the cost of us in this biz doing business....  That simple....

 

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I spoke with Larry Fisher last week, with concern about my investment in my new 411's, and the white space issue.  The 700MhZ spectrum has been allocated to the cell phone companies, plain in simple, over time, those the upper half of BLK 27, all of 28 & 29 will begin having more and more issues with interference as these companies start selling phones and devices in this range.  As far of the white space issue, my understanding is that the design regulations for these devices are are very tough to build.  These devices have to be able to change its frequency upon detecting another device operating on that frequency.  I am not an expert on the details, but after speaking to Larry, my feeling is that things will get better for the wireless community at least for the near future.  The disclaimer is POLITICS, and things are always subject to change with politics and money!

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I'll hazard a more direct response to Reid's original post.

Where you live is a very dicey RF market at the moment. Nothing in the 700 mHz range works right now, not to worry about what's coming in February. The DC/Baltimore/Fredrick/Hagerstown region is a big problem at the moment. WiMax is testing in Baltimore, and anything in the area of TV 55 is problematic. Add the TV 54 and 55 transmitters in Hagerstown, the TV 54 transmitter in Baltimore and the TV 56 transmitter in the DC area to the mix and there is a mess.....

Call somebody who deals the RF line you want to buy in the area, and you'll get a straight answer if they have done their homework. Right now, I'm moving all of my systems to the high 600's, since the TV 47, 49 and 50 slots look good in the area. White space is the space between allocated TV channels, although with our current FCC, who knows so pay to license your units and stay away from frequencies between assigned TV channels.  I'll be adding other units in other frequencies as funds allow and the situation clears up. Oddly, it will cost me more in the long run to deal with my Comtek systems since I've happily lived in the slot between the audio carrier and the end of the TV 9 slot for years. WUSA will light up their DTV transmitter in February '09 on TV 9 so that will end. I'll re-frequency the 5 Audio Ltd's that need it for well less than the cost involved in replacing a 10 or so receiver Comtek system. And they will be 216's which require a lot more care and feeding, even though the units themselves are pretty durable.

So in answer to Reid, call me. You have my number. All others (since I have gotten a lot of unsolicited email and personal messages around this issue in the past) please share your wisdom with the group as a whole. I've made it my business to be informed on the issue as it affects me.

With warm regards,

Jim

P.S. If you are able to use a TV9 Comtek system, mine will be available soon. It's going to Utah for a "vacation" later in the week. It will be tuned and happy, as well as for sale between now and February.

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I spoke with Larry Fisher last week, with concern about my investment in my new 411's, and the white space issue.  The 700MhZ spectrum has been allocated to the cell phone companies, plain in simple, over time, those the upper half of BLK 27, all of 28 & 29 will begin having more and more issues with interference as these companies start selling phones and devices in this range.  As far of the white space issue, my understanding is that the design regulations for these devices are are very tough to build.  These devices have to be able to change its frequency upon detecting another device operating on that frequency.  I am not an expert on the details, but after speaking to Larry, my feeling is that things will get better for the wireless community at least for the near future.  The disclaimer is POLITICS, and things are always subject to change with politics and money!

The over-700MHz area is actually for "land mobile", ie police/fire/emergency services, not phones, at least in my area, which is why the FCC declared their continued use by non-licensees after Feb 19 specifically illegal.  The phones in question ARE the "white space" devices, and will employ new technology to work in the present UHF TV bands.  They have some prototypes that they have been testing with variable success (depending on who you talk to), and I don't doubt that there will be more widespread testing after 2/19 with deployment whenever.  The current economic climate seems like it will slow things down, both in terms of public safety orgs. having money to start up new systems in the 700 MHz band and the interest of the public in buying new cel phone-based services and putting up the gear to extend WIFI to non-urban areas etc over UHF.  But...the CEO of Google is a tight buddy of Obama's.....

Philip Perkins

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