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  This may not mean anything but I have a bet going with a grip friend of mine. The other night at wrap I ended up on the grip truck(again) and we got talking about film terms. I believe that in the states you guys call the last shot of the day the martini. We in Canada call it the window shot. I am told this comes from our British heritage where at the end of the day you went to the pay "window" to get your daily pay. Maybe  some  British recorders could verify this. The second last shot of the day is the Abby so named after the second AD Abby Singer who apparently continually called the second last shot the martini or window.

Anyway to my point. MOS. Does this really come from some obscure German director who had a thick accent and said this will be shot "Mit Out Sound". I think for those of us that old enough remember when sound was printed optically on the film, that this really means. Missing Optical Stripe.

Just thought I would through this out for fun and hopefully win a bet.

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  This may not mean anything but I have a bet going with a grip friend of mine. The other night at wrap I ended up on the grip truck(again) and we got talking about film terms. I believe that in the states you guys call the last shot of the day the martini. We in Canada call it the window shot. I am told this comes from our British heritage where at the end of the day you went to the pay "window" to get your daily pay. Maybe  some  British recorders could verify this. The second last shot of the day is the Abby so named after the second AD Abby Singer who apparently continually called the second last shot the martini or window.

Anyway to my point. MOS. Does this really come from some obscure German director who had a thick accent and said this will be shot "Mit Out Sound". I think for those of us that old enough remember when sound was printed optically on the film, that this really means. Missing Optical Stripe.

Just thought I would through this out for fun and hopefully win a bet.

In the US, the "Abby Singer" shot was named for a Hollywood AD who was famous for his call of "This one and one more boys!".  It was originally a way of letting the crew know that he was going to call a wrap or a company move quite soon, so that anything that could start to be packed up should be.  Anymore it has come to mean the 2nd-to-last shot or setup of a shooting day, with the final shot being the "Martini" (for obvious reasons), or, more recently, the shot we "die" on.  Where I live we also have various names for the next shot AFTER the last shot, ie the one they forgot about but remembered at the last minute, but that name changes depending on who we are working for that day.

Philip Perkins

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Okay, I can play the game too. I bet no one knows the origin of "gobo" (flag put in front of a light to cut some of it off). My understanding of this is quite obscure and may of course be completelyt untrue, but take a crack at it. Also, I have nothing to add to the M.O.S. lore except that it most probably does relate to optical sound and when the sound department actually ran the cameras and the optical sound recorder (later of course this is also the origin of the sound department calling "speed" even well into the day where we had no way of knowing if the camera was even rolling). I will also add that referring to a shot without sound as "M.O.S." is not a universal thing --- in Enlgand I believe they still refer to "the next shot will be mute" and I have seen on old clap slates, even in the U.S., the designation "SIL" for silent.

-  JW

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The National Film Board Guys always called a C stand a Gobo Stand, so I think Jeff's interpretation of that one works.

Regards,

Jim Rillie

I only described what a gobo is for those who don't already know. I haven't yet revealed the origin which is my trvia. And to add to what you have said above, "C- stands" are called that because the major manufacturer was (and still may be) Century --- so it was nicknamed a C-stand. The other manufacturers, Amaerican and of course Mathews, you would think they might be called "Mat-stands" or "Ameri-stands" or something.

-  JW

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I was told the term MOS came from the old days when the sound mixer controlled the sound recorder and the camera with a selsyn motor which kept the two in sync. If it was a shot where sound was not needed, an insert shot for eg., they would tell the sound mixer that it was a "Motor Only Shot" and he would turn the camera. My first job was in a machine room of a small rerecording studio with equipment that was quite old. We used a selsyn motor to keep the dubbers and projector in sync.

Rob Young

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As long as we're at it, how in the world does "French flag" refer to a small piece of card attached to an articulating arm?

I will ask my father that one...  he will have the answer for French flag I'm sure. He is also the one who told me the origin of the word "gobo" for the flag we have mentioned. The black flag used to be called "a nigger" even going so far as to say "nigger off that light" or "throw a nigger in front of that baby" on some sets. There was a gaffer whose name last name was Gobo who objected to the term "nigger" and at some point it caught on that maybe it would be a better idea to refer to the flag as a "gobo". I think they were being called gobos by the time I started visiting the set (at about the age of two or three) but I do remember when I was a little older being shocked by the my father yelling out: "kill the baby in the coffin in the bathroom" on one set I visited.

-  JW

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Hadn't heard "dolly parton" before. I am starting to doubt the origins of gobo since a simple Google search does indicate that the word is quite common already for a long time:

GOBO

A partial screen used with a spotlight to project a shape.

This word is common in theatre, film, and television, but appears here because it looks so odd and unEnglish. It is most often used by lighting technicians to refer to a metal plate with a pattern of holes in it, which is placed in the gate of a spotlight to produce an image or outline on the set. More sophisticated gobos rotate to create moving patterns; some are of glass with complex coloured patterns on them.

The word can also be used for a fabric or wood shape placed in front of a light to cast a shadow (in some circles in the US this is called a cookie or a flag instead). But it can also have other senses that relate to some sort of mask: perhaps a shield used to shelter a microphone from extraneous noise or to acoustically separate groups of instruments in an orchestra, or a screen used to shield a lens from light.

It has nothing to do with the Japanese vegetable of the same name—its origin is somewhat obscure, but it’s most probably just a condensed version of go between.

Another name for certain types is cucoloris. This is the usual name for a large perforated gobo placed in front of a lamp to project a diffused shadow pattern. It would seem to be the origin of the abbreviated form cookie that I mentioned above (if so, the latter would have no biscuit links). But where does cucoloris come from? My sources are totally silent on the matter—no dictionary I’ve consulted has even heard of the word, not even the big Oxford English Dictionary. Could it be from Latin cucullus for a hood or cowl?

Now, cucoloris is a word I have heard all my life...  was that the gaffer Lorenzo Cucoloris who coined that one?

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  See Jeff I told you this site was alot of fun. I liked robaudio's answer for MOS. I have seen some British ad's put "soc" on the call sheet. Silent on camera. Here is one no body has talked about. I was working with Bruce Surtees on a shoot and he had an interesting theory as to where the term "barney " comes from. Jeff I had not heard your version of where gobo comes from. Some electrics will still say hammer that light. In reference to MC Hammer and black wrap.

I really love all the old pictures of gear and days gone by. The picture of Bruce Bisenz mixer is a work of art. I will try to get some of the old set pictures from my dads scrap book digitized  and on the computer

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Hey guys,

Before working I startred as a location mixer I worked as a restoration sound editor.

M.O.S.

1. Minus Optical Stripe

2. Motor Only Speeding (meaning the camera)

At least that's what I learned.

Before I worked in restoration I worked in music.  Mainly studio but I also did a little bit of live.  A gobo means something completely different there.  In recording studios we set up gobo's all the time.  They're partitions.  Usually a wooden frame with acoustic padding and insulation held together by the frame.  Full-size, half-size, full-size with a plexiglass window with isolation space inside.  Anyhow, gobos are used to isolate musicians and their instruments from each other so you can actully record everybody at the same time without bleed.  Put the drummer in his own gobo room:)

The real question is what does OS stand for?

On-screen or Off-screen dialogue?

Cheers,

Sara

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Hey guys,

Before working I startred as a location mixer I worked as a restoration sound editor.

Obviously I can't proofread what I type:)

I meant to say:

"Before I started working as a location mixer I worked as a restoration sound editor"

In case it was too convoluted to figure out:)

Sara

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Hey guys,

M.O.S.

1. Minus Optical Stripe

2. Motor Only Speeding (meaning the camera)

At least that's what I learned.

The real question is what does OS stand for?

On-screen or Off-screen dialogue?

Cheers,

Sara

I think the definitive answer as to the origin of M.O.S. may never be known, I am inclined to go with what Sara says here. Others have posted similar origins and I think it is safe to say that the least likely reference is the oft reported: "Mit out sound."

As for "OS" it almost always means OFF screen or OFF stage, even though as you point out it could well mean ON screen. I think the reasoning, certainly as a script description, ON screen is the default situation so it is only OFF screen that needs to be identified by using the "O.S." designation.

-  JW

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As for "OS" it almost always means OFF screen or OFF stage, even though as you point out it could well mean ON screen. I think the reasoning, certainly as a script description, ON screen is the default situation so it is only OFF screen that needs to be identified by using the "O.S." designation.

-  JW

Hi Jeff,

I agree with this "OS" meaning off-screen in premise.  The problem really arises in post.  You can find yourself using the most convenient acronym "OS" for both and forgetting which you meant.  What happens when you have a documentary with lots of VO (voice-over) and all of a sudden your host is on-screen with 2 lines of DX (dialogue).  You write down "OS".  Likewise, you could be working on a film where a problematic portion of a line is off-screen and you write down "OS".  And if it's half narrative VO, with the occasional OS (on-screen) line, followed by an interview where the DX continues OS (off-screen)...  Remember, in post you're not on set so you get what the editor puts together.  Long nights....and nobody can hear you scream....

Sara

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"Remember, in post you're not on set so you get what the editor puts together.  Long nights....and nobody can hear you scream...."

Sara

Worse yet, probably no one is interested in listening to you scream even if they are in the vicinity. The problem is very real, consistency in the use of acronyms, and I agree with you that in the isolation of the editing room with no other cues to go by, how to manage these things with your notes can be problematical.

-  JW

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Drives my INSANE when the Dierctor shouts out "Mit Out Sound"! I quickly pull him over, not right away of course, and give a good lesson in history. Typically in a joyous manner since my appearance doesn't establish that a history lesson from me is possible. But they always have the "light bulb" expression once they hear "Minus Optical Sound", and it all seems more logical! Only one director insisted I was wrong! And I left him believing he was right! I figured I could lose the next call if I argued with the more experienced man.

A steadi-cam op I often work with has renamed is "french flag" for his lens, "frida"! I love that!

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Drives my INSANE when the Dierctor shouts out "Mit Out Sound"! I quickly pull him over, not right away of course, and give a good lesson in history. Typically in a joyous manner since my appearance doesn't establish that a history lesson from me is possible. But they always have the "light bulb" expression once they hear "Minus Optical Sound", and it all seems more logical! Only one director insisted I was wrong! And I left him believing he was right! I figured I could lose the next call if I argued with the more experienced man.

A steadi-cam op I often work with has renamed is "french flag" for his lens, "frida"! I love that!

Oops! That should read "Drives me INSANE".....and not all the directores were "he's" :)

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I read with interest Sara's post regarding OS.  I believe that this term is a carryover from the stage, where an actor might start their dialogue OS, or Off Stage, or a line of dialogue would merely be OS.  I had never seen DX as dialogue.  MX, for Music, and EFX for Effects, and when I was in post we used DIA for Dialogue.  This was a long time ago though.

I have always seen OTS for Over the Shoulder.

I agree with RVD.  The OS as off-stage being carried over to mean off-screen makes sense.  I've heard the stories about MOS as "Mit Out Sound".  However, if we look at the majority of acronyms that we do use (SMPTE, LTRT, EDL, DAT, CD, DVD for example) they usually spawn from a technical term that gets shortened.  Anyway I prefer to go by the technical story.  Either that or update the joke.

1. Mixer Obviously Sleeping (yeah, right)

2. Mixer Outside Smoking (suggested by somebody who smokes)

Btw, we used DX, MX, & FX to distinguish tracks at the place I worked.  Obviously EFX was just to long for us to write:)

-Sara

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  • 3 months later...

Let's take a little time to be trivial.

Of course I'm sure there are plenty of you out there that think all my posts are trivial!

Do you know why it's called a "lavalier" type of microphone?

This is indeed trivial, in the best sense. I think that it should be lavalliere, and the word has an interesting history.

Cheers,

Rory

P.S. I loved your comments in the other discussion.

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Anyway to my point. MOS. Does this really come from some obscure German director who had a thick accent and said this will be shot "Mit Out Sound". I think for those of us that old enough remember when sound was printed optically on the film, that this really means. Missing Optical Stripe.

Great fun, thanks.

I look forward every day to seeing what's next on this site (and as some of you will note, me postingses haven'ts gotten much smaller)

I've always believed MOS stood for Minus Optical Stripe, the stripe (stripes) matted alongside the film. Ira Konigsberg's 'Complete Film Dictionary' only mentions 'mit out sound' by 'some German Director' or 'member of the crew.'

The IMDB website glossary of terms reads:

[AKA: Mit Out Sound, Minus Optical Stripe, Motor Only Sync, A take that is filmed without recording sound at the same time. MOS stands for "mit out sound" ––it is purported that director Erich Von Stroheim couldn't pronounce "without sound" correctly due to his accent.]

I didn't like their statement MOS stands for "mit out sound," because there seems to be no documentation of which of the three is the first to have happened. They all would have happened around the same decade (?), but which came first?

According to Kristen Thompson and David Bordwell's "Film  History, an introduction" (857 pages of introduction...go figure), Erich von Stroheim (born Austria-Hungary) began his career as an assistant to D. W. Griffith in the 1910's as an actor, mostly playing the evil hun in WWI films, and was elevated to Director by German born Carl Laemmle, head of Universal. Von Stroheim's directorial debut was titled "Blind Husbands," in which he also acted as the seducer. His next film, "Foolish Wives," ran greatly over budget and Universal billed it as the first film to cost over a million dollars. It also ran over six hours long (gee...I think I'll be doing something else that night)

After making "Merry Go Round" in 1923, von Stroheim moved to 'Goldwyn' to make "Greed" where he was noted for his softening of the image by placing fabric or screen over the lens, following a practice established in still photography and already developed further on screen by his mentor Griffith.

Six scattered pages (of 857) reference Erich von Stroheim. There is no mention of him using the term 'mit out sound.'

Doug

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I was told that it was Josef von Sternberg, the German director that came here with Marlene Dietrich, when asked if sound would be necessary for the shot he replied that this shot would be "Mit Out Sound." 

as this MOS seems to be the greatest (most commonly asked about) mystery I've come across in relation to the sound department on the set, I'm doing my best to find any shred of proof.

I had accidentally overlooked RVD's posting earlier when I went into research mode. Back into the books, to no avail, I found eight pages refrencing Joseph von Sternberg and again there was no mention of him saying "mit out sound." This isn't to suggest it didn't happen. I would guess it was an easy laugh among the cast and crew anytime there was an honest German dialect present. In the same manner that, sometime during the production shoot when I walk on set, someone inevitably sings "I'm being followed by a boom shadow...", back in the day of the many German Directors/players working in the states, no doubt during the shoot someone would get him/her to say "Mit out sound" and everyone would chuckle.

Still seeking the truth,

Doug

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