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Aaton Cantar X3 user feedback?


Kriky

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Hello JWSound Group!

 

Long time lurker, first time posting here....

 

I've been intrigued by this recorder and have been considering it for use as a sound effects gathering machine.

I know it is currently limited to 96kHz sampling rate but I've heard that 192 kHz is currently still planned to be supported.

What I like about the X3 is the amount of inputs that it has (both analog & digital) along with the screen & redundant recording mediums among other things.

What I'd like to know is how the people actually using the X3 here like the machine:

 

1. Do you like the recordings that they get from it?

2. Do you think that this would be a good recorder for my purposes as a sound effect recordist?

3. How clean are the mic pres?

4. How do you like the limiters?

5. What do you think are some of the X3's shortcomings?

6. What are some of the things you believe the Cantar X3 excels at?

 

Not looking to start a which recorder is better war, just trying to get real X3 user opinions as to whether the sound quality is excellent enough to justify the expense.

 

Thank you in advance for all of your input!

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Hi Lurker,

 

I am an X3 owner and I’ve used it on many projects including FX and music.

 

I love the mic preamps , very musical , great headroom , very low noise , I don’t really notice them.

The limiters are very good , but remember they aren’t adjustable so just on or off.

 

I’ve used my X3 in many over shoulder situations, shooting a TV drama on a moving train , up mountains, lots of car rigs and staying very portable but with several radio mics and 2 booms . It is a very flexible machine but I have to admit it is heavy. Lighter than an X2 my previous recorder. Also it is power hungry . This isn’t such a big issue but keep it in mind for your budget.

 

The X3 has a steeper learning curve than other machines but IMO once you are comfortable with it , it is faster to reconfigure.

 

You could also look at the Cantar Mini , same pre amps , same machine really just less of it so more portable.

 

Hope this helps.

 

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hi Lurker,

 

I am not so convinced if X3 is the best machine for FX recording. Many of it's virtues are maybe not key issues for FX, like onboard sliding faders, speed of workflow, documentation capabilities, monitoring and routing flexibility, playback engine...

 

for your questions:

  1. yes!!
  2. yes, if you got unlimited budget and a strong shoulder to carry a big bag. If you love to charge smart batteries and like to carry some of them around.
  3. to my ears they sound very good. But I find myself using the pres of my Lectro wireless most of the time, so my listening experience is already compromised.
  4. the limiters in the analog stage cannot be topped imho, so I would be careful to compare them with "adjustable" ones.   I never got that far with adjustable limiters, but I liked those of the analogue Nagra, of the Sonosax and the Cantar machines. All of them cannot be tweaked, because they work in a complex way.
  5. already mentioned  above.  I 've never heared about the 192 khz for X3 thing though, but interesting to know this is also in the pipeline.
  6. X3 is immensely versatile and allows for complex tasks to be performed very quickly. It is a studio on your lap. Compared to what it offers, it's weight and footprint are minimal. But it is still one of the biggest all-in-one location sound recorders out there. 

 

The key question is, do you need all that workflow speed, complexity and flexibility for your FX recording? It comes at a price of weight, money and power demand. If it was for the best pre's and limiters + enough tracks you could also look for a Sonosax SX-R4+. If you add an AD8+ you got 12 world class mic pres and 16 tracks at less cost, less weight, smaller bag and better energy efficiency. And you could still impress your recordist friends.

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Hello Myk & Axel (and everyone else...),

 

Thank you so very much for your thoughtful feedback and information regarding using the Cantar X3 as a sound effect recording device.

Hearing from actual users provides me with insight into many things and helps me with my decision to possibly purchase this machine.

 

I know that there a plenty of other options at (and below..) this price point to choose from and I've investigated all of them all and each have their own Pro's & Con's.

For my own personal preferences I narrowed it down to either the Deva 24, Sonosax SX-R4+ (with AD8+) and the Cantar but am gravitating toward the later for numerous reasons like the number of both analog & digital inputs, multiple media recording, screen real estate, ergonomics, weather-resistant housing, number of recording tracks and from I understand really great sounding mic pres (which from what I understand are based on the same Lundahl transformers that are/were used on Focusrite ISA studio gear), etc... I'm not a fan of small screens with micro-text and I like the simplicity of turning a physical knob to change pages and going in/out of recording. Another reason to look at the Cantar would be if I ever do decide to get into live film/tv work I already will own a machine that is well suited for this role and it's good to have options. Again, these are my personal preferences and your mileage may and most likely vary but just wanted to give people context as to why I'm looking at the Cantar. I know it is heavy and large but I'm optimistic from the pictures that I've seen that it's not so unwieldy that it becomes a deal breaker. 

As for impressing my recordist friends, I could care less.... it's more about getting a piece of gear that is unique that brings a different flavor to the lineup and motivates me to get out and record more in the field. I already have a Sound Devices recorder and was looking for something to compliment and extend my current setup.

 

If either of you could answer a few more questions that I have it would really help me out:

 

1. I don't see a list of approved SD cards (Make & Model#) anywhere on the Aaton site, could you recommend which ones that work with your recorders?

2. It is my understanding that 2 fully charged Aaton batteries will last around 4+ hours (2+ hours a piece) total. How do you power your machines?

3. Do you use the any AES42 mics in your set up with the Cantar? How does the Cantar perform when using digital mics when recording?

4. If you were given the opportunity to switch to another recorder would you stay with the Cantar or move to another machine and why?

 

Again, thanks for all the information and feedback!

 

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hi Cybersky,
I mostly do fast pace TV stuff, series and drama, many actors, no time, often forced to roll when I still shouldn't.

 

In my world, the most important feature of X3 probably is the metadata engine. I have been forced to work with 2nd class wireless connections on iPads and phones, for years.  I do not want to go back there. With X3's  perfect overview screens and instant metadata access even during record I can change wrong slate numbers on the fly and later make a note to a specific take that a certain actor's line is clear only here, because there was no overlap. With additional PDF, ALE and CSV reports I can be sure that post will see it when putting the dialogue track together.

The second key feature for me is the playback engine. It feels like a combo of a recorder and a NLE system, it allows for scrolling through waveforms and on the fly track solos (waveform according to instant solo selection!) while playing back. It dramatically reduces the time I need  to judge over a critical take after the AD has shouted "we are done with this" and I got the chance to hold it before everybody moves on for the next.

 

Like Myk Farmer, I have chosen for a hybrid bag setup, which suits my needs. The bag unfolds at the top shelf of my cart with the onboard faders at my fingertips like a real mixer and easy visual access to 10 Rx with antenna distro, comms, video  monitoring and the like. For those inside-the-car or boat or on-the-roof scenes it takes literally only one minute to close the bag and detach the antenna connections to have the same functionality over the shoulder, sacrificing only the amplified sharkfins and the video monitors.

 

for your questions:

  1. Sandisk extreme pro 16 - 64 Gb UHS-I SD cards and nothing else.  This is also made public by Aaton. Not one media glitch in 2 1/2 years with X3.
  2. X3 typically draws between 18 and 24 Watts depending on the setup. With all settings at max (AES 42, Dante, display brightness...) including power supply for outboard gear it could come close to even 30 Watts. So 4 hs with the 2x48 WHs onboard batteries is quite realistic.
    As it is a clumsy procedure to change those onboard batts inside my bag, I rely on a NH2054 98 WHs battery ("Inspired Energy" style)  in the side pocket. I found that many people do. A 12 hs shooting day is about 3 of those for the X3. I still keep the onboards inside for my peace of mind.
  3. never used digital mics but I've used the AES 42 inputs for extra receiver pairs once in a while and they performed well (in fact it is AES 3 if you turn OFF the digital mic power). With AES you sacrifice the beautiful analog limiters, which I sometimes use in the way of a soft compressor for voices in appropriate  situations.
  4. Since I got my X3  I never spent a thought to change to a different machine. I have used a Cantar X1 and an SD788T before, still keeping the X1 for smaller scale over-the-shoulder procuctions and a  Sonosax SX-R4 (no "+")  for 2nd unit/FX and lightweight bags.

 

I do not know any real life reports about the Deva 24, but if you want the big thing and go totally Zaxcom the Deva 24 might be the best option. If you stay with mixed gear from different manufacturers, X3 imho is unrivaled in the field of location sound recording. For myself I'd narrow it down to "scripted" and mostly cart based production. The SX-R4+ seems to be acoustically great and very small, but also a little clumsy and more inclined towards menu diving. I am always forced to roll in the mid of chaos and need the big screen and the big dedicated knobs for all those last second setup changes. Thats why I was suggesting the SX-R4+ for your needs, thinking you had more time and less chaos when everything was set up for your needs only.

 

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Some thoughts, not strictly on topic, but it has been something of a general discussion, comparison...

Deva 24 will have a touch screen, very good for fast configuration access, less menu scrolling.

Deva 24 will have a removable front panel / control surface, which offers unique ergonomic possibilities.

Deva 24 will be very capable for it's size and weight.

Deva 24 has some unique and very useful capabilities like Zaxnet built in, MixAhead?

Deva 24 has external SSD built in

Zaxcom have shown good commitment to getting the most out of designs without complete re-designs.

Will there be a Deva 16 not far behind?

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My experience with media and batteries is similar to Axel. I have had no issues with the recommended media . I often run 2 SD cards in simultaneous record with the internal SSD. I use the remote audio 98wH batteries as my external ones and like Axel always have internal batteries also , all are hot swap able so no shutting down the recorder , and the remote audio batteries can be charged in the Aaton charger. 

 

I haven’t used the AES inputs but as Axel notes there are no limiters however that will be fixed in software updates as well as increased gain control on the AES inputs that some uses have mentioned. Which brings me to another good point with the X3 . With Aaton there has always been excellent after sales backup , issues you may have are responded to quickly and often by the people who designed/built the X3. There is also a very useful Facebook group of uses.

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Hello Myk & Axel,

 

Again thank you very much for all the information regarding the Cantar X3 in real-world use, very helpful stuff!

 

I didn't know that you could charge the Remote Audio 98wH sized batteries (or any other for that matter) inside the included Aaton battery charger, good to know.

Obviously these won't actually fit inside the Cantar X3 battery bay so I understand that they are used as external power source.

My last question would be what cable and/or peripheral do you use in conjunction with the larger Remote Audio 98wH batteries for use with the X3?

If you could please be specific with Make and Model # I would greatly appreciate it!

 

Thanks!

 

 

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2 hours ago, Cybersky said:

My last question would be what cable and/or peripheral do you use in conjunction with the larger Remote Audio 98wH batteries for use with the X3?

If you could please be specific with Make and Model # I would greatly appreciate it!

 

choose according to your needs:

http://www.audioroot.fr/products-2/

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I've always liked to have a back-up.  My first back-up for my 4.2 was an IS.  It became my favorite recorder.  When I got a PD-4, there was always a Nagra in the truck because I looked at the PD-4 as a VCR.  Did they ever foul up?  It took me three years to trust recording on a little card in the 744 but I still bought a Zoom as a BU.  Now, there's still a Zoom that never gets used but I could probably use my iPhone if I had to.

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