Production recordings and M&Es

[Jesse Flaitz]

I was doing some EPK work for The Get Down and we were interviewing the music supervisor for the show.  I got to talking with the sound editor who was helping set up the background Pro Tools session.  He mentioned having to re-cut the production track for an M&E for an unrelated movie due to the production recording having the radio playing during a driving scene.

M&Es are something that is easy to forget about in production sound recording.  How much time do you all spend thinking about that specific part of post audio?  Do you bring up M&Es as a reason to record a scene a certain way?  Say if there is a radio playing in a driving scene or a party scene or something, would the M&E factor in your decision to marry the radio/TV to a production track if other considerations (like dialogue over the scene) are not an issue?

I've often been in favor of capturing that detail in production if the scene warrants it, but having to work around that in a post mix for international distribution is not something I've thought about too much.  Most of the movies I work on are indies in the $1-2mil range where the post budget is really tight.  Capturing the detail in production may save them time later, but alternatively it might add time if it needs to be edited out and covered by FX editing.

Thoughts?

[Rick Reineke]

"How much time do you all spend thinking about that specific part of post audio?"

On a dramatic film as the PSM? Zero, or close to it. Unless it's extraneous (unwanted) or there's music playback or 'live' music happening. I'll get specific S/FX if requested. M&E is post's job.

[Philip Perkins]

Usually the radio is playing because the director or the actors want it on for the vibe of the scene.  Yeah, it creates more work in post, but if that's how the big kids want to work the scene on location then that's what we're going to do.  If there is a concern about cutting around the music then we might be asked to deliver it to the actors on earwigs, again that's a director call...   On a film that has to deliver a fully-filled M+E the post has been budgeted for that work, esp the foley to cover where all the dialog is removed.

 

[Jesse Flaitz]

19 minutes ago, Philip Perkins said:

Yeah, it creates more work in post, but if that's how the big kids want to work the scene on location then that's what we're going to do.

That seems to be the MO.  I guess it's a somewhat trivial part of post and assuming they are doing the M&E post distribution deal, I'd hope they would budget for just such situations.

[JonG]

I try to get clean tracks for post whenever possible. It is easy to lay in a music track later, but working around it will be time consuming. Of course if production is being difficult about allowing me to do my job correctly, I'll roll with it, put it in my notes, and do my best to create usable mix. 

Having been on the post side of this question, where creating the M&E stems for foreign distribution was my job, I can safely say that when this sort of thing came up, I was annoyed, and made sure to let production know that these sorts of decisions end up costing the film in time and performance (ADR), and it is best to do it the correct way the first time. If they are unsure what that is, they need to consult the PSM. 

[greg sextro]

Phil nails it on the head. We leave the music up for the directors and actors when they need it for performance.  Usually it's for the rehearsal or maybe the first couple of takes (if they really need it).l

I actually am a little surprised they didn't edit in dialog from a take that doesn't have the music before needing to create an M&E - meaning that they used the production mix or track with the playback music in their initial post mix. Could be a time factor. Could be a performance factor. 

[mikewest]

M&E tracks used to be a requirement but currently shooting time is more valuable.

Foley and atmos tracks are far cheaper than a whole crew waiting for sound effects

mike