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Blas Kisic

Xantrex inverter won't… invert

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My cart is AC-powered. After a couple of years of getting power with a Samlex inverter and a separate charger, I decided to buy a Xantrex Freedom HF 1050 inverter/charger, to simplify my workflow, following the recommendation of Phil Palmer, Richard Lightstone and others.

I have a Furman power conditioner, which feeds a number of devices: a Mackie Onyx FW mixer, a Venue receiver, a BlackMagic dual SDI monitor, two Comtek base stations and a Mac laptop. Power comes from a 34Ah gel battery.

I installed the inverter and set up everything as per the instructions. Everything works fine when connected to house power: the Furman shows 112-120 V, the battery is being topped off, hovering around 13.8V and all the devices work as expected. However, when I unplug the AC power, everything dies - and the Furman starts blinking, eventually causing an overload alarm on the Xantrex.

Everything is exactly the same as when I had the Samlex connected, so I can't figure out what could be wrong.

I called Schneider this morning, and the tech had me connect an unrelated device (without involving the Furman.) No problems. The next step will be to connect all the devices in the cart to a regular power strip and connect it to the Xantrex. I will be doing so tonight - but, in the meantime, I wonder if anybody here might have a similar experience, or is able to shed some light on this problem.

TIA!

I forgot to mention that the system consumes less than 150W… So if a 300W inverter was sufficient, I would think that a 1KW one would be no problem.

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When I had AC mixer, I used a small pure sine wave inverter to power the mixer. The inverter and all the DC gear (similar to yours) was powered by a purpose built PSC Powermax Ultra. Simple. Any battery can be plugged into it. It'll charge huge block batteries, car batteries, LiPO4 batteries, etc. 

If you have a massive Yamaha setup with tons of AC gear, I can see using your solution. But the PSC power supplies offer industry standard 12v distribution, with high power outputs for inverters. Seems like the best solution, if you ask me. 

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Two questions; 1: Where is the power conditioner in the chain? For me the Furman is what receives the A.C and the Xantrex (the charger part) is powered off the Furman. 2: The battery may have reached it's maximum re charge cycles and thus drains immediately? I have a 79Ah Glass Mat that can still power all of the a.c. powered items even down 11.7  volts for an hour or more.

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I would imagine that the device plugged into the Xantrex inverter isn't happy with the modified sine wave output.  I've used them in the past and 98% of everthing I ran with it ran fine, however, the other 2% wasn't happy.

I would bet your 300 watt inverter that was working in this setup was a pure sine wave inverter.

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1 hour ago, unmguy2000 said:

I would imagine that the device plugged into the Xantrex inverter isn't happy with the modified sine wave output.  I've used them in the past and 98% of everthing I ran with it ran fine, however, the other 2% wasn't happy.

I would bet your 300 watt inverter that was working in this setup was a pure sine wave inverter.

Indeed, it was. It was a Samlex pure sine wave inverter. How is one to know which power conditioner will like the output from the inverter? Seems like a hit and miss proposition…

BK

1 hour ago, RLightstone said:

Two questions; 1: Where is the power conditioner in the chain? For me the Furman is what receives the A.C and the Xantrex (the charger part) is powered off the Furman. 2: The battery may have reached it's maximum re charge cycles and thus drains immediately? I have a 79Ah Glass Mat that can still power all of the a.c. powered items even down 11.7  volts for an hour or more.

Thanks, Richard.

The Furman power conditioner gets its power from the inverter. All other devices are plugged into it.

As far as the battery's condition, it's less than a year old, it's a gel battery, and has never been depleted. Actually, most of my cart work is off house power, and I don't remember the last time I worked for any length of time off the battery…

Are you saying that I should plug the Xantrex into the Furman, and then connect all other devices off the Xantrex?

BK

2 hours ago, RPSharman said:

When I had AC mixer, I used a small pure sine wave inverter to power the mixer. The inverter and all the DC gear (similar to yours) was powered by a purpose built PSC Powermax Ultra. Simple. Any battery can be plugged into it. It'll charge huge block batteries, car batteries, LiPO4 batteries, etc. 

If you have a massive Yamaha setup with tons of AC gear, I can see using your solution. But the PSC power supplies offer industry standard 12v distribution, with high power outputs for inverters. Seems like the best solution, if you ask me. 

Thanks, Robert. I just thought it'd be simpler to make everything AC, rather than getting an additional unit for all the other stuff…

In any case, this setup worked flawlessly for two years - it frustrates me that it suddenly doesn't work.

BK

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Well, I did the test: as Richard suggested, I plugged the Xantrex into the Furman power conditioner, which was then connected to house power. I plugged all the devices into a power strip, and plugged it into the Xantrex's AC output.

Well, it works just fine. I guess the Furman didn't like what the Xantrex was sending it - off to reroute all the cables…

Thanks, all.

BK

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Hello Blas,

Sorry to read of your troubles.  In troubleshoot mode, have you simply tried a single device...say the Yamaha O1v off the inverter/distro (Furman)?  Also, I read that you are using a conditioner after the Inverter output, not a regulator.  A regulator would cause some interesting draw fluctuations.  The conditioner is just a really good power strip.  I use a Furman AR1215 before the Inverter.  And a conditioner/strip after the output.

If you are running your whole cart off the output of the inverter, as this is how I read it, you might be into a load issue.

I think I mentioned to you that I run all DC off a PSC Powerstar and only the AC items (Yamaha and a Fostex RM2 speaker) off the Xantrex HF1000 inverter system.  The load on the inverter is super light, but it serves me well.

That said, I would start with eliminating all items, then adding them to see where the problem occurs.  Hard to armchair troubleshoot, but that's a good start.

PWP

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Thanks, Phil - and sorry I pestered you at work today… Was in a bit of a panic!  ;-)

In any case, I did figure out that the Furman should be at the beginning of the chain, to feed the Xantrex clean voltage. I will just feed the mixer and the other critical devices by plugging them into a power strip, which goes into the Xantrex. I just tried that and it's working fine. I will rewire everything tomorrow and retest.

Thanks again,

BK

Incidentally, the Xantrex tech told me they just came out with a pure sine wave unit, just like the one I have. It's $200 more than what I paid for this one - I think I'll just stay with what I have for now - but good to know.

BK

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Well, if anybody cares… I rewired the cart and it's working as expected. I just ran everything for 60 minutes off the battery, and it still shows 11.4V, which is more than enough for my needs.

Cheers,

BK

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