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Philip Perkins

UK Soundies: what will LEAVE mean for your work?

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I have a friend who is on tour in Holland right now.  I asked about what his Dutch co-workers thought and they seem to find the whole thing incomprehensible, and they are pretty pissed at the UK.

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Somehow I just feel like this will be overruled and a new vote will take place and the results will be wildly different. Not in any way dreaming, I'm too ignorant to know the exact implications and negative impact this will have on the rest of the EU, I just think it's sad that this result is the outcome of a racist wave in all of Europe, as if you could protect yourself from having neighbors..

But I think that the rest Prue EU is a bit too undemocratic to allow for someone to quit. And now with this massive petition and everything I find it hard to believe that the voting won't be ruled invalid(?).. I might also be totally wrong but it's just a feeling.

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On 25. Juni 2016 at 1:49 PM, RadoStefanov said:

I would not be surprised if the process is sped up and completed by the end of the year. Euro Zone don't want the UK dragging them down and are already pushing for a quick exit.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36626409

The UK however, do not want to speed this up at all. They have to invoke article 50, before anything can happen. The referendum was only a recommendation to the UK government, but they can decide when they will start negotiaions. 

Unsurprisingly, even the leave camp want to take it slow:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/24/boris-johnson-no-need-haste-eu-exit-negotiations

18 hours ago, Olle Sjostrom said:

 

Somehow I just feel like this will be overruled and a new vote will take place and the results will be wildly different. Not in any way dreaming, I'm too ignorant to know the exact implications and negative impact this will have on the rest of the EU. 

Technically it's very possible. No new vote would even be required. The referendum was not legally binding for the government to act on. Morally speaking they probably should, but they don't have to. Instead they could just take a vote in the House of Commons and, if yes, stay on the EU. Most MP's are pro EU, so that would be a sure thing. It would also prove, ironically, that the UK is capable of sovereign decisions. 

Back in May, Nigel Farage, the leader of UKIP and the driving force behind the leave campaign, said that if the remainers won by,  say, 52-48, the result would be too close and the referendum should be repeated. Now that he has won by exactly those numbers, he isn't saying that anymore, of course. By why aren't the others saying that?

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I don't get it. What's so bad about Britain deciding to leave the EU? The EU appears to be disintegrating. The Euro is a mess. Why call the people who want to regain their sovereignty a bunch of old bigots? My gut feeling is this will be good for Britain once things settle down. I wouldn't want to be on the attached to the EU when all the PIGS countries start going bankrupt. I'm just asking questions. There just seems to be a lot of hate aimed towards "the Leave" side.

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5 minutes ago, Adam Bowick said:

I don't get it. What's so bad about Britain deciding to leave the EU? The EU appears to be disintegrating. The Euro is a mess. Why call the people who want to regain their sovereignty a bunch of old bigots? My gut feeling is this will be good for Britain once things settle down. I wouldn't want to be on the attached to the EU when all the PIGS countries start going bankrupt. I'm just asking questions. There just seems to be a lot of hate aimed towards "the Leave" side.

Do you intentionally call them PIGS instead of PIIGS?

 

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57 minutes ago, Adam Bowick said:

I don't get it. What's so bad about Britain deciding to leave the EU? The EU appears to be disintegrating. The Euro is a mess. Why call the people who want to regain their sovereignty a bunch of old bigots? My gut feeling is this will be good for Britain once things settle down. I wouldn't want to be on the attached to the EU when all the PIGS countries start going bankrupt. I'm just asking questions. There just seems to be a lot of hate aimed towards "the Leave" side.

I have the same thought. Seems like an experiment that isn't working like they thought it would. 

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Lets not kid ourself. This whole ordeal was used by certain politicians for their own gain.

The EU was very beneficial to the UK.

They kept their borders and their currency and imported cheap labor from eastern Europe.

Good luck finding Englishman to pick strawberries and do all the dirty works.

Maybe Syrian refugees will be open to move in great numbers on refugee visas to take over the eastern european labor.

if it was not for the racism and nationalism this would have never passed.

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11 minutes ago, RadoStefanov said:

Lets not kid ourself. This whole ordeal was used by certain politicians for their own gain.

The EU was very beneficial to the UK.

They kept their borders and their currency and imported cheap labor from eastern Europe.

Good luck finding Englishman to pick strawberries and do all the dirty works.

Maybe Syrian refugees will be open to move in great numbers on refugee visas to take over the eastern european labor.

Hmmm.. The highlighted above doesn't make sense.  Where are the Brits to work if all this cheap labor is coming in to replace them? Sounds like the blue collar man gets the hose again.

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it is the same argument that the US is having with Mexican and Central American labor. No American or Englishman will pick up fruit or do dirty, hard low paying jobs.

 

 

Read about schengen. Uk is not a part of it.

 

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Whatever the cause, it's a bit alarming that all of media are making it look like the Brits are stupid; the petitions are obviously aggregated by remain voters who are disappointed and not leave voters who regretted their vote (not mentioned). The report that people are googling "what is the EU" is also misleading, as they're googling "what does leaving the EU mean?". And also there's this age thing, that most elderly people voted leave, and that they're in some way guilty of the outcome of this vote. Personally, I think it's interesting that in a democratic vote in a democratic part of the world, the result is bashed and frowned upon, belittling the people, instead of respecting that result ; respecting democracy.

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Thank you, Olle. You speak for me as well.

I sincerely believe that this referendum went the way it did because a large amount of the voters did not bother to vote. I understand that Australia and perhaps other countries have a law that obliges people who have the vote to use it. If that law applied in the UK I think that the result would have been different. But there we are: we shall see what happens. I hope that in the future politicians will not look at what happened to Cameron's decision to hold the referendum and think to themselves when next a thorny problem presents itself: "Heavens, we can't ask the voters to decide on this, it is far too important. They might give the wrong result. Better to impose our will on them. We know best". 

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2 hours ago, RadoStefanov said:

Lets not kid ourself. This whole ordeal was used by certain politicians for their own gain.

The EU was very beneficial to the UK.

They kept their borders and their currency and imported cheap labor from eastern Europe.

Good luck finding Englishman to pick strawberries and do all the dirty works.

Maybe Syrian refugees will be open to move in great numbers on refugee visas to take over the eastern european labor.

if it was not for the racism and nationalism this would have never passed.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/26/racist-incidents-feared-to-be-linked-to-brexit-result-reported-in-england-and-wales

There were some left wing (progressive) reasons to leave EU but almost exclusively the campaign for 'Leave' was centred around a racist discourse about immigration. Many of the Leave voters seem to think they were voting for the repatriation of foreigners (whether they be refugees or economic migrants). The sorry failure of our political class to rise above the agenda of the rightwing press and show leadership has effectively legitimised the racist sentiments of various groups of people, who feel they can't express themselves without being called racist (which is a bit of Catch 22 because their views are often quite racist but if this is pointed out they get very upset). I'm totally disgusted by the whole the thing. Part of me wants to see the dumb arses in places like this suffer - they have essentially voted for their own demise. But the fault lines exposed in this referendum have been around for a generation or 2. So the question is, do we try to mend these divisions before they get worse (probably by appeasing the xenophobes with some staunch rhetoric against the immigrants all western economies need to grow and will not stop (with the side effect of an increase in attacks and abuse of perceived immigrants)) or do we wait and see how these 17 million feel when they realise they've been totally conned by Farage and Co.

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3 hours ago, efksound said:

Talking about immigrants trying to get to the UK,  I wonder what will happen now with the UK border that is on French ground in Calais ??
Im sure the French will now ask sooner or later the border to be moved again to UK ground
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-33267137

Sooner rather than later. Sunderland as usual was the first to get its vote in and has some excellent port facilities that will soon be without use.

Jez

"Yes, EU - GIVE US OUR BORDERS BACK!"

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"Global markets erased another $69.2 billion from the combined net worth of the world’s 400 richest people Monday, bringing the total since the U.K. shocked investors with a vote to leave the European Union to $196.2 billion in the last two trading days."

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I don't get it. What's so bad about Britain deciding to leave the EU? The EU appears to be disintegrating. The Euro is a mess. Why call the people who want to regain their sovereignty a bunch of old bigots? My gut feeling is this will be good for Britain once things settle down. I wouldn't want to be on the attached to the EU when all the PIGS countries start going bankrupt. I'm just asking questions. There just seems to be a lot of hate aimed towards "the Leave" side.

The EU is not disintergrating at all. If it is, it's only because of the Brexit.

Why is it bad for Britain to leave?

The EU is first and foremost a free trade union. That's why it was founded after the last World War. The reasoning being that countries and people who do trade with each other don't do war with each other (pardon the clumsy phrasing). And what do you know? The last 70+ years have been the most peaceful ever in Europe, despite the Balkans war, which is a slightly different story (and those countries weren't in the EU).

After the wall had come down, many eastern bloc countries quickly became members of the EU and thrived as a result, quickly overcoming the struggles of years of oppresion. The EU helped them immensely to rebuild their countries.

There are areas for improvement, no doubt, reform is urgent, but the reason for the problems in the EU is not too much regulation, but a lack of integration. The Euro crisis only happened, because there is a common currency, but no common fiscal policy, but no currency can work like that.

Britain doesn't need to regain its sovereignty, it has never lost it. It decided to delegate some issues to the EU (where Britain has a strong voice), and focus on the others. Military and finances are still very much in each country's own hand. What's more sovereign than to decide how big a military you want to have and how much you want to pay for it?

what borders? It is an island...

There are no Bulgarians on rafts swimming to the English shore.

Well, there is a tunnel...

Plus, of course, regular shipping service. If the refugees pay for their ticket, why would the french keep them from getting on a boat to go to Englad?

"Heavens, we can't ask the voters to decide on this, it is far too important. They might give the wrong result. Better to impose our will on them. We know best". 

But you (the people) voted for those politicians, that is denocracy. Of course, there is nothing wrong with having more direct involvment by the people, I think. Seems to work well enough in Switzerland, but there must be rules that decision of such a magnitude like Brexit vote, which will dramatically change the course of the country, the should be a minimum participation and the winner must win by a certain margin. 4% just isn't enough for the fate of a country

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5 hours ago, Constantin said:

Seems to work well enough in Switzerland, but there must be rules that decision of such a magnitude like Brexit vote, which will dramatically change the course of the country, the should be a minimum participation and the winner must win by a certain margin. 4% just isn't enough for the fate of a country

Yes indeed. The second president Bush was not elected by a majority of the American people, but still became president due to the antiquated electoral college system of electing the president. Given that about 60% of eligible Americans vote on presidential elections, and fewer than 50% of those people voted for Bush, the world has been suffering the consequences of the Bush era due to misguided votes of less than 30% of the American population. Even if the Brexit vote was 52/48, it is far lower than 50% of eligible voters in the UK who have tipped the first domino for what could be economic disaster for many european countries.

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