Waist-belt bag rigs: current state of the art?

[MartinTheMixer]

2 minutes ago, RadoStefanov said:

Yes, Oneunit - Ripped off Nomad, micplexerII and Inspired manager inside, 3 qrx200s Comtek TX and bag.

This is a picture before taking the xlrs put of the nomad.

 

Rado, That includes power supply system? 

And that hurts your back? Or are you not wearing it?

[RadoStefanov]

14 minutes ago, MartinTheMixer said:

Rado, That includes power supply system? 

And that hurts your back? Or are you not wearing it?

yes includes everything.

and No. It does nit hurt my back!

[MartinTheMixer]

Rado, that's awesome. But it looks scary to having all that exposed. Where is the battery in that picture? Also, Zaxcom is trying to figure out the whole multitrim issue.

6 minutes ago, RadoStefanov said:

yes includes everything.

and No. It does nit hurt my back!

 

[MartinTheMixer]

Ok, I found this picture of a bag mixer. Now I understand why you guys have back pain.

 

[mikewest]

Yes I'm struggling with the odd run and gun jobs!

664 plus 3 x 400 receivers and a UM100 camera link and a small Li-Po battery in andOrca bag

14.5 Lbs of great technology

My past training with Nagras wandering around many countries has not helped!

Found I had the Orca waist belt so am trying it for size

God bless studio shoots

mike

[RadoStefanov]

7 hours ago, MartinTheMixer said:

Rado, that's awesome. But it looks scary to having all that exposed. Where is the battery in that picture? Also, Zaxcom is trying to figure out the whole multitrim issue.

 

battery inside nomad

 

[daniel]

I've gone back to using a shoulder strap (when I can) because it's lighter and quicker to get the bag on and off and give my back a rest. That's why I'm interested in a single action, 1 handed quick release (like ortlieb panniers) for the harness. The portabrace audio vest looked interesting til i realised there is no easy way of taking the equipment from it - so to enjoy a few minutes of downtime means taking the whole thing off, ugh! The other thing I've noticed is the more you look down (at the kit) the worse it is for neck and back - it sounds obvious but no one's made 'head up' display for us. As for the back-pack rigs, nice in theory but when you get 5 minutes between shots I don't want to spend most of that time getting in and out of 'costume' :-)

I'd quite like to see a wide waist belt designed to be (semi) permanently attached to 1 side of the bag so some of the things which need to be connected like batteries and hops etc can be distributed around my waist and reduce the forward profile of the bag. It would need to have a buckle operated by 1 hand (ie 1 half firmly attached to the bag) as the other hand would be holding the bag (and boom  ). Oh, and Titanium XLRs!

My best solution so far is:

~ Shoulder strap to get the thing on/off quickly and alternate shoulders if need be.

~ The lightest bag the gig will allow, including lightweight cables. If its a 3 channel gig I'm using my 633 in a Ktek junior.

~ Use a small back pack to carry the bits and pieces i used to keep in the mixer bag and balance off some of the weight up front (hodges effect?).

~ Trust my ears and don't look down so much.

d r

Ps. I really like the 'kick stand' on the Ktek junior - I'd like to see a bag which will take a tripod plate. I sometimes hang the bag from a lighting stand but it's hard to get a nice working angle.

[MartinTheMixer]

53 minutes ago, RadoStefanov said:

battery inside nomad

 

Rado, The battery for the whole package, receivers, etc. , is the battery in the Nomad?

[Rachel Cameron]

On 7/10/2016 at 11:51 PM, Philip Perkins said:

That picture looks kind of scary to me, like gravity is being defied....

 

Another problem I have with waist borne bags: See how the top of the thigh is in full contact with the back corner of the bag? This makes the whole bag o' gear bounce up and down and left and right with each step, hindering agility. For fast and agile movement, I used to pick up the bag (off my thighs, putting a hand under it), with the boom in the other hand, just to run or move faster. This was a major hassle. I would end up with bruises on my thighs sometimes. This is why I switched to a harness.

[Philip Perkins]

36 minutes ago, Rachel Cameron said:

Another problem I have with waist borne bags: See how the top of the thigh is in full contact with the back corner of the bag? This makes the whole bag o' gear bounce up and down and left and right with each step, hindering agility. For fast and agile movement, I used to pick up the bag (off my thighs, putting a hand under it), with the boom in the other hand, just to run or move faster. This was a major hassle. I would end up with bruises on my thighs sometimes. This is why I switched to a harness.

Yeah...(sigh).   I guess the best solution is a....."boom operator".  There, I said it. 

Mike W: I like my 664 a lot too but kind of gave up on it as a bag rig re weight and size....   A smaller recorder saved my "walkability"!

What I'd really like would be some kind of super CL-WiFi where I could set a decent sized bag down and just work off a remote with the boom.  I know Zax etc have something like this they are trying, but I'm leery of using WiFi etc for this so far.  If NASA can send complex commands to Juno orbiting Jupiter, why can't I have an interference-proof low-latency remote control+moni return setup for production sound? Techies!  Get busy!

[RadoStefanov]

7 hours ago, MartinTheMixer said:

Rado, The battery for the whole package, receivers, etc. , is the battery in the Nomad?

yes. search the forum for OneUnit

[Wandering Ear]

8 hours ago, daniel said:

I'd quite like to see a wide waist belt designed to be (semi) permanently attached to 1 side of the bag so some of the things which need to be connected like batteries and hops etc can be distributed around my waist and reduce the forward profile of the bag. It would need to have a buckle operated by 1 hand (ie 1 half firmly attached to the bag) as the other hand would be holding the bag (and boom  ). Oh, and Titanium XLRs!

 

This is very similar to the bag setup I've had Kortwich make for me.  Wide waist belt which has two buckles on each side.  I usually grab the bag by the handle, and I can put it on and off easily.  I also have a removable pouch on the back of the belt to hold spare batteries, radios, etc.  This balances the weight on my hips better, and if I don't need anything additional from my Pelican, I can run a full day with 4 talent, with just what you see here.

[Constantin]

There is also this, http://dedleg.uk.com which might help to rest a bit, if the bag can't be taken off quickly enough. Bit pricey, though

[Philip Perkins]

Balance on the belt--seems like a good idea, thanks.

[Wandering Ear]

2 hours ago, Philip Perkins said:

Balance on the belt--seems like a good idea, thanks.

It helps, but weight is weight, so I find myself putting as much weight in the back pouch as I can, and taking it off and setting it down on the side of set whenever I can since the pouch just clips into the waist belt.

[MartinTheMixer]

Here is where I get in trouble for not being politically correct, but these back pains, are we talking about the carbohydrate challenged?

I would like some Europeans to weigh in on this. Pun intended.

[Philip Perkins]

3 hours ago, MartinTheMixer said:

Here is where I get in trouble for not being politically correct, but these back pains, are we talking about the carbohydrate challenged?

I would like some Europeans to weigh in on this. Pun intended.

You mean am I fat?  Yeah, a little overweight.  But check in with me re: your back, knees, shoulders and feet after 4 decades doing location sound, with more than a few mishaps and injuries, ok?  We used to have this thing called a Nagra?   Runs on 12 D batteries, for starters?  Long before harnesses and waistbelts were even a glimmer in the eyes of designers @ Orca, PortaB, Versaflex etc etc soundies were out doing seriously whup-ass work with that machine carried with a simple strap, sometimes as much as 10 miles in a day on nature films or verite docs etc...so many of us come by our current "limitations" honestly, right?  Re Euro folks, some say the very best waist/harness rigs are made by Kortwich in Germany--very Euro.

[soundtrane]

What we need designed is - "a steadicam for a sound bag" or so... just out of the top of my head as i drift off to bed, with two loop groups to be recorded tomorrow and on sunday... heh.  

[MartinTheMixer]

20 hours ago, Philip Perkins said:

You mean am I fat?  Yeah, a little overweight.  But check in with me re: your back, knees, shoulders and feet after 4 decades doing location sound, with more than a few mishaps and injuries, ok?  We used to have this thing called a Nagra?   Runs on 12 D batteries, for starters?  Long before harnesses and waistbelts were even a glimmer in the eyes of designers @ Orca, PortaB, Versaflex etc etc soundies were out doing seriously whup-ass work with that machine carried with a simple strap, sometimes as much as 10 miles in a day on nature films or verite docs etc...so many of us come by our current "limitations" honestly, right?  Re Euro folks, some say the very best waist/harness rigs are made by Kortwich in Germany--very Euro.

Philip, ok, sorry. So I guess the problem will be minimized when newer (younger) sound mixers have come on the scene, ones that don't have all the history of damaging themselves with the heavier, more cumbersome equipment. I think many mixers are putting this weight on their back, when the weight should be on their hips.

This could be compared to setting up a racing vehicle suspension. There is sprung versus unsprung weight. Sprung weight is all the weight supported by the suspension.  To exaggerate this, you could have a vehicle, let's say a motorcycle, that has a maximum rider weight capacity of 200, then you say, for a very odd reason, let's put a 300 pound wheel on the front and the back. That alone is 3 times the allowed capacity weight, but the engineer could say yes, you can do that, because the weight you are adding is unsprung weight and is not sitting on the shocks (which is where in this scenario, the rider weight limit was calculated.)

So, if the weight sits on your hips it is "unsprung" weight since it doesn't sit on your back. Might this wear out your hips? Possibly. But, this shouldn't make your bag hurt, unless of course, there is some other issue, possibly you hurt from simply just standing too long and the only time you stand 14 hours is when your mixing. And I would think the average mixer doesn't just stand around 14 hours a day when they aren't mixing. 

The other issue is shoes. I see people on sets wearing what looks like to me to be shower clogs. I like grips as much as the next mixer, but if a c-stand or anything else that weighs that much gets dropped on your feet, you are going to have real problems. Turns out, you walk a lot better if you have feet. If your shoes aren't comfortable, you squirm around, and that doesn't help your back.

 

[hobbiesodd]

1 hour ago, MartinTheMixer said:

 

So, if the weight sits on your hips it is "unsprung" weight since it doesn't sit on your back. Might this wear out your hips? Possibly. But, this shouldn't make your bag hurt, unless of course, there is some other issue, possibly you hurt from simply just standing too long and the only time you stand 14 hours is when your mixing. And I would think the average mixer doesn't just stand around 14 hours a day when they aren't mixing. 

 

After almost 20 years of bag work - from Nagras to DATs to 788s and now my beloved Nomad - my limited physical issues center around my knees, which in your analogy would certainly be "sprung" weight. 

I'm a very fit 6'1" guy and after taking some chondroitin for the last few months I've noticed a marked improvement on any minor joint pain. 

 

Cheers,

Evan Meszaros

[Philip Perkins]

What does chondroitin do for you?

[hobbiesodd]

10 minutes ago, Philip Perkins said:

What does chondroitin do for you?

My brother turned me on to the stuff. He's a vet and claims it works wonders on his horses. The daily chondroitin+glucosamine supplements I take are three (literal) horse pills and that's a drag, but so far it has truly improved the "thinness" and mild discomfort I've been feeling in my knees over the last year or so.

Here are the specs...

Origin: Chondroitin is a component of human connective tissues found in cartilage and bone. In supplements, chondroitin sulfate usually comes from animal cartilage.

Claims: Reduces pain and inflammation, improves joint function and slows progression of osteoarthritis (OA).

What we know: Believed to enhance the shock-absorbing properties of collagen and block enzymes that break down cartilage. Helps cartilage retain water and may reverse cartilage loss when used with glucosamine.

 

Cheers,

Evan Meszaros

[Philip Perkins]

Reducing inflammation sounds real good.  I don't think it will help my battered meniscus(es) but with arthritis and damage I have inflammation to burn, so to speak....   Do health food stores sell that stuff or do you get it from a supplement-type place?

[hobbiesodd]

8 minutes ago, Philip Perkins said:

Reducing inflammation sounds real good.  I don't think it will help my battered meniscus(es) but with arthritis and damage I have inflammation to burn, so to speak....   Do health food stores sell that stuff or do you get it from a supplement-type place?

I buy it online. A simple Google search reveals countless options. I don't know the exact brand I've been using but it's likely the healthiest option with most potentcy. 

Hope that helps!

Cheers,

Evan Meszaros  

 

[MartinTheMixer]

2 hours ago, hobbiesodd said:

After almost 20 years of bag work - from Nagras to DATs to 788s and now my beloved Nomad - my limited physical issues center around my knees, which in your analogy would certainly be "sprung" weight. 

I'm a very fit 6'1" guy and after taking some chondroitin for the last few months I've noticed a marked improvement on any minor joint pain. 

 

Cheers,

Evan Meszaros

Evan, yes, you are correct. Sorta. The conversation here was about putting the weight in back instead of front. For you, that might not matter. It might change the way you stand to the point of making it better, or worse. The weight would still be on your knees.