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Scott Selman

Timecode Files, Now What

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Sorry if this is common sense, or something often talked about that I'm not searching for correctly, but I figured I'd just take a stab and see if I can get some opinions...

I typically do a lot of post work for the short films that my company produces - just comes with the territory.  In the past, not having a timecode recorder I would create new master video files after each shoot, creating files with the 2nd system audio built in with the video track - time consuming but it worked.

Fast forward to now - I have a 664 and we shot on a Weapon and everything was in TC heaven... so now what??

I've been told the whole point is so that editors can take the camera files w/ the scratch track - do their edit - and then somehow in some audio software (probably ProTools) I can get an EDL or XML and it will magically put my TC audio files into the right place and add all the iso tracks - and all that good stuff...

So how do I do that...

I typically use Logic or Adobe Audition for my smaller mixing work - is this a ProTools only thing? I'm working with editors who use Premiere, not Avid..

Thanks for all your help in advance!!

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Best easiest is for you to post sync your 664 files to the camera files before you start cutting.  If audio and video have the same TC you might could get the "field recorder" workflow to work for you in PT, but it is a fraught enterprise and requires workflow tweaking (ie time) to make it work.  I don't think Logic or Audition can do this for you.  If the eds will sync up all the files before cutting so that all the audio files get passed from the NLE to the export you can avoid all that conform work, a good thing.

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sarcanon   
13 hours ago, Philip Perkins said:

If audio and video have the same TC you might could get the "field recorder" workflow to work for you in PT, but it is a fraught enterprise and requires workflow tweaking (ie time) to make it work.  I don't think Logic or Audition can do this for you.

Unless I'm mistaken, the field recorder workflow is a feature of Pro Tools HD, and not the standard Pro Tools. Also, there are third party software applications that streamline the production audio conforming process, of which EdiLoad is probably the most well known.

But as Phil suggests, it's far simpler if you can get picture editorial department to take this on. That's not always possible, unfortunately.

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Ediload is fairly PT centric as well.  For lower budg projects one way to keep things simple is to restrain the number of tracks used in the field so that the editors will"carry" all the tracks thru the edit to the export.  If many tracks are needed all the time then some version of conforming is needed.  The PTHD method works of you follow the rules, but there are other more bespoke methods possible if there is time and will to do workflow testing. 

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There is a free version of Davinci Resolve that supposedly does a good job syncing video and audio. I haven't tried it but have heard post folks talk about positively it so maybe check that out. There is a also a very good app from Tentacly Sync but I think it's only good for syncing video by audio TC (DSLR style, so maybe not useful in your case), and if you don't have a Tentacle, you'll need a license.

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Wow - so why all the big deal with TC if I can just sync in Plural Eyes or Premiere using the audio track? What'd I spend all this money for :)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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PE or the Premiere audio sync thing isn't 100% reliable, and the less similar the ref track is to the master the less reliable it is (like the onboard mic of a DSLR etc).  You just get close, then you check it all by eye.  Resolve etc can autosync to TC, which is more accurate if everyone has followed the rules.  Again, these are dailies syncing tools.  What the orig post is about is conforming audio after an edit. 

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Again, these are dailies syncing tools.  What the orig post is about is conforming audio after an edit. 

Although I do wonder if a post edit conform could in fact be achieved with PluralEyes?

I have never worked with PluralEyes myself, but if the mix track the editor used isn't too wildly different from the isos, it could work?

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I guess it could but it would be very messy to set up.  Wouldn't you have to go find all the relevant clips manually and get them into the time line close to the ref so PE could fine them?  Since the app assumes you know which field takes (cam with audio, master audio) to start with in the daily-syncing regimen?   Once the film is edited and the orig scenes are broken up into edits?   I've never heard of anyone using PE this way, it would be cool if it worked.  The whole PT Field Recorder+Ediload etc deal or etc is expensive and fraught.

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On July 25, 2016 at 5:57 PM, Christian Spaeth said:

There is a free version of Davinci Resolve that supposedly does a good job syncing video and audio. I haven't tried it but have heard post folks talk about positively it so maybe check that out. There is a also a very good app from Tentacly Sync but I think it's only good for syncing video by audio TC (DSLR style, so maybe not useful in your case), and if you don't have a Tentacle, you'll need a license.

FYI the Tentacle Sync Studio software (Mac OS only) will happily sync files with audio timecode as well as ones with "proper" file TC. I use it this way frequently, sometimes re-exporting synced media or more usually creating XMLs for Premiere.

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That's cool, but in post you will have many instances of the same original file TC referring to diff audio (scenes) from diff days.  That's where the conforming apps etc come in, juggling the editorial TC, the orig file TC, other metadata, and then finding the correct multitrack original audio group to conform to the cut.  This is not a trivial undertaking, and even under the best of circumstances there are still "mysteries" to be solved.  This is why those apps are so spendy, and PT only lets owners of the high-end app have access to their conform feature. However, esp in the indie world, a cheap or free solution, bespoke or no, that gets you down the road even just a ways is a win for sure.

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