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Bartek Baranowski

Sony A7s II & ninja flame recorder - timecode isue

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Hi there,

I'm about to start a long running shoot for a documentary. The production've decided to go with 2 Sony A7s II with ninja flame recorder. I've researched both the net and the manuals of the camera/ninja and can't find a definite answer to my question - Is there a way to jam, input or output timecode from this camera set up? I'm using SD633, sending a scratch track mix to the camera using Senn G3. Time code wise - I was planning to buy Tentacle box and use it to jam my 633, then put it on the camera/recorder, as a TC generator.

I could record TC on an audio track on camera, using tentacle, but then i cant feed the camera with my ref mix through Senn receiver. I would like to record a scratch track on the camera for many reasons though.

Who has an experience with this set up and can recommend a solution? if there is one...or is it that you can't jam, feed or tale TC from sony and ninja? 

Thanks

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Both devices don't have TC inputs: 
for that kind of scenario I use a custom made cable; 2x mini jack -> 1x stereo jack. that way you can get your scratch track on ch.1 AND TC on ch.2. It's not a standard cable, need to look up the special wiring.

Bear in mind that with this setup you cannot really playback audio on camera because you usually can't mute ch.2
What is your scratch track for?

cheers,
claus

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For an upcoming Track Day, my team chose 2 Hyundai 1.4's because they have 4 wheels and can drive around a Track. The thing is though I have to drive one and they want me to be competitive with Team Ferrari......... any tips !!!

No seriously, good on you for trying to find a solution to Productions lofty ambitions, but if I were you I would forget about TC feeds and just send Scratch Tracks to the Camera's and use a Timecode Slate, or if that's not possible they can roll the dice with  Scratch Tracks on the Camera's, no Timecode Slates and PluralEyes.

Cheers,

Steve

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Thanks for you reply. Claus, the scrach track is for playback on set, watching dailies but mainly for editing and in case of a some disaster with my equipment - a fold back recording on the camera. with your custom cable - do you not get bleeds from the TC signal onto the production sound track? Also wonder if Tentacle sync software for syncing would work ok with such set up? Steve, yes its shocking that this camera dosn't even have the ability to jam it manually (then at least I could do it at the start of every day with 24h run mode and hope for constant offset between TC on my 633 and the camera) However, we all know that those cameras are here to stay and will only appear more often in hour work. Any other ideas and suggestions greatly appreciated.

unfortunately, using a slate (which would be my responsibility) on a run and gun style show is asking for trouble i'm affraid..

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They made the wrong choice, going with the Flame vs the PIX-E7, that has timecode input on BNC and superior audio capabilities - but not your department, just send mono scratch and don't worry about the rest.  I would suggest encouraging camera department utilizing an XLR-K1M or XLR-K2M module though that has typical Sony broadcast style XLR inputs and also allows utilizing an on board shotgun mic.  For doc purposes, this is important so if a camera goes rogue or is out of range, it will still have some sound being recorded from the shotgun, whereas if you plug in a hop to the mic input, it defeats the built in mic.

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Unless production has done a tried and true workflow test of any alternate choice, I'd advise you stick with what is most standard.  In this case, it's just as Tom mentioned above, scratch track to camera.  This is the type of shoot Plural Eyes was made for.

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2 hours ago, Bartek Baranowski said:

Thanks for you reply. Claus, the scrach track is for playback on set, watching dailies but mainly for editing and in case of a some disaster with my equipment - a fold back recording on the camera. with your custom cable - do you not get bleeds from the TC signal onto the production sound track? Also wonder if Tentacle sync software for syncing would work ok with such set up? Steve, yes its shocking that this camera dosn't even have the ability to jam it manually (then at least I could do it at the start of every day with 24h run mode and hope for constant offset between TC on my 633 and the camera) However, we all know that those cameras are here to stay and will only appear more often in hour work. Any other ideas and suggestions greatly appreciated.

unfortunately, using a slate (which would be my responsibility) on a run and gun style show is asking for trouble i'm affraid..

Bartek, It's a scratch track - there is some bleed, but you can make it work ok and reduce it to minimum with careful gain staging. don't know about they A7s II or ninja flame, but with a Blackmagic Pocket Cam you can adjust input levels independently, which helps. Works ok for onset playback, but wouldn't want to use for dailies and certainly not for editing.

The Tentacle Sync Software works great with that kind of setup as it automatically senses the Audio TC Track. It's super easy to use with multicam projects btw.

2 hours ago, Tom Visser said:

They made the wrong choice, going with the Flame vs the PIX-E7, that has timecode input on BNC and superior audio capabilities - but not your department, just send mono scratch and don't worry about the rest.  I would suggest encouraging camera department utilizing an XLR-K1M or XLR-K2M module though that has typical Sony broadcast style XLR inputs and also allows utilizing an on board shotgun mic.  For doc purposes, this is important so if a camera goes rogue or is out of range, it will still have some sound being recorded from the shotgun, whereas if you plug in a hop to the mic input, it defeats the built in mic.

+1

 

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Thank you all for your advise. Ive decide to go with tentacle and their smart Y-cable cable solution (thank you Claus)  for my exact set up:

https://shop.tentaclesync.com/product/tentacle-microphone-y-adapter-cable-copy/

Not sure if you can monitor only one channel (scratch track) on this Sony camera?  If not - thought luck. At least I'm covered with TC sync and Tentacle soft will do the syncing for me.

 

 

Movegear looks cool as well, but tentacle is just amazingly easy in set up and use. The company's customer service is also first class.

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