Mobilemike Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 Hey all - Sorry for the amateur-ish question but I was wondering if there's any downside to feeding regulated power to devices that don't necessarily require it. I'm planning on picking up a Hawkwoods 12V regulated NP1 cup to power my DR680 that hasn't been getting much use lately. They have a version that has multiple Hirose outputs, so I could also use it to power my SD552 or Sonosax mixer as a front end to the DR680. Neither of those devices require regulated power like the Tascam does. So any downside to feeding them regulated 12V power anyway? I know Hawkwoods also has a DR680 power cable that has a regulator built in so I could power it from any BDS but I like the idea of not worrying about special cables I know that excess power in a regulated system will be dissipated as heat, but I assume that would apply no matter how I choose to regulate the 680 power. So any downsides to feeding everything regulated 12V I'm not thinkin of? Thanks! -Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 I don't think there is ant downside or caution to supplying regulated DC to any of our typical gear. You will be "wasting" a bit of your battery life potentially, depending on how the regulator works in the circuit. Most all of the equipment has a voltage range that is acceptable (11 to 16 vdc for example) and it's not going to care if it sees 12 vdc constantly. I will add that your question is about whether there is any downside to regulated DC --- I would ask, why do you want to use regulated power? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobilemike Posted August 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 Cool, thanks Jeff! The only reason I'd want to feed everything regulated power is for simplicity's sake. The Tascam DR 680 needs to receive regulated 12V power ( I fed it unregulated power from my BDS in the past, and ended up frying the power supply board which then needed to be replaced… Oops), so in my mind it seems simpler just to get a BDS that produces regulated power rather than dealing with a special cable just for the Tacsam. But maybe I'm crazy -Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kosty Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 One disadvantage is that you can't read how much juice is left in the battery with a volt meter (external or the recorders internal one). For example, with unregulated power, I know that my battery is almost depleated at x.xx Volts, so I can judge when I need to switch batteries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 2 hours ago, kosty said: One disadvantage is that you can't read how much juice is left in the battery with a volt meter (external or the recorders internal one). For example, with unregulated power, I know that my battery is almost depleated at x.xx Volts, so I can judge when I need to switch batteries. You could add a voltmeter that reads the battery voltage at the input side of the regulator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 You could add a volt meter that reads the battery voltage at the input side of the regulator. As I understand it he wants to use an NP-1 cup with an integrated regulator. Isn't it a bit fiddly to add a voltmeter to that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 rf spray. i stopped using regulated power supplies after i found, with an rf explorer, that if i had the regulator part near to the antennas of my zaxcom receivers, they would become desensed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 1 hour ago, Constantin said: As I understand it he wants to use an NP-1 cup with an integrated regulator. Isn't it a bit fiddly to add a voltmeter to that? Not at all. The voltmeter just goes across the incoming leads and measures the battery voltage. It solves the issue kosty mentioned. However, people should pay attention to what rich just mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Thomas Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 I've also found that combinations of regulators in certain kit can cause hums/whines from them interacting with one another (older Sonosax sx-r4 seemed to be susceptible) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryF Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 3 hours ago, Mobilemike said: [snip] I know that excess power in a regulated system will be dissipated as heat, but I assume that would apply no matter how I choose to regulate the 680 power. So any downsides to feeding everything regulated 12V I'm not thinkin of? Hi Mike, If the regulator is a switching regulator type, you will have very little heat loss. Typically the losses run 5%. At 14.2 Volts in and 2 Amps at 12 Volts out the loss as heat would be 12 Volts x 2 Amps x 5% = 1.2 Watts. If it is a linear regulator, the power loss (as heat) will be the voltage drop multiplied by the current drawn. If you are going from a 14.2 Volt battery to 12 Volts regulated and drawing 2 Amps, you would "lose" 4.4 Watts (14.2-12 Volts) x 2 Amps= 4.4 Watts. Greater voltage differences, in to out, would favor the switching regulator as its losses remain at about 5% of the power out where as the linear regulator has losses that increase directly with the voltage difference. If the output voltage is half the input voltage, then the regulator consumes as much power (gets hot) as it puts out. It also means it consumes twice the power from your input source. That heat has to come from somewhere and somewhere is your energy source (battery). Linear regulators are great for small differentials in voltage as they are simple and electrically quiet. Switching regulators don't regulate as well and produce some noise though they are efficient and run cool. This noise can show up as an audio whine when two switching regulators are on the same circuit. The whine being the difference in switching frequency of the two switchers. Some gear has switchers already at their power inputs as evidenced by wide input voltage ranges. Putting a regulator in front of them does complicate things and consumes some power. One important caveat: regulators can protect downstream equipment by limiting the input voltages. My take would be if you are speaking of small voltage differentials such as 14-15 Volts dropped down to 12 Volts, a quiet linear regulator may be good insurance against battery chargers that can run amuck. They will also typically give you protection against shorted cables or gear, as most all regulators are short circuit protected and current limited. Best Regards, Larry Fisher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 Not at all. The voltmeter just goes across the incoming leads and measures the battery voltage Which incoming leads? The battery slips right into the cup, with the regulator. According to the OP, all outputs are regulated. Sorry if I'm a bit daft here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted August 25, 2016 Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 5 hours ago, Constantin said: Which incoming leads? The battery slips right into the cup, with the regulator. According to the OP, all outputs are regulated. Sorry if I'm a bit daft here... -- The two supply leads from the battery to the input of the regulator. Yes, it requires a soldering iron and a modicum of fabrication ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
resonate Posted August 25, 2016 Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 10 hours ago, rich said: rf spray. i stopped using regulated power supplies after i found, with an rf explorer, that if i had the regulator part near to the antennas of my zaxcom receivers, they would become desensed. Which regulator Rich? Are you talking HawkWoods here? What frequencies were affected? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich Posted August 25, 2016 Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 yes. i was looking at 606-614 as thats our allocated band over here. but its pretty broadband, though only if the regulator is close by to your antennas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobilemike Posted August 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 Thanks so much everyone for all the input! I'm not terribly worried about a voltmeter here - its only for a backup rig after all - but the RF interference thing is a bit more worrisome. Rich, how close is "close by" where you noticed interference? Like does it have to be touching, or is it still interfering if its even in the same bag as the regulator? Thanks! -Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted August 25, 2016 Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 -- The two supply leads from the battery to the input of the regulator. Yes, it requires a soldering iron and a modicum of fabrication ability. I think it's going to be a bit more than a modicum. At least on my Hawkwoods as below. On mine the flying lead isn't regulated anyway, so it doesn't matter, but it's going to be very difficult to open this up and attach a voltmeter somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted August 25, 2016 Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 1 hour ago, Constantin said: I think it's going to be a bit more than a modicum. At least on my Hawkwoods as below. On mine the flying lead isn't regulated anyway, so it doesn't matter, but it's going to be very difficult to open this up and attach a voltmeter somewhere. Why? I'm guessing a screwdriver would make entry obtainable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted August 25, 2016 Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 Why? I'm guessing a screwdriver would make entry obtainable. Yes (as well as breaking some glue), but then it's all PCB mounted, no wires. It might be possible to connect something to the metal strips coming from the battery, but I couldn't dislodge them, and thus couldn't open the case. It may be possible, but difficult. Anyway, I was really just hoping you might have had some brilliant way I hadn't thought of to connect the meter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted August 25, 2016 Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 Since you would be putting the voltmeter in parallel, you don't need to unsolder anything, just connect a couple of wires to the proper points on the PCB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Rillie Posted August 26, 2016 Report Share Posted August 26, 2016 You gotta love Larry Fisher's concise and human responses (always well thought out and often humorous at the same time) and technically on the mark answers to all questions. We love your input, Larry. (saying that for all of us) if i'm not being too presumptuous. Best Jim Rillie Production Sound Mixer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McL Posted August 27, 2016 Report Share Posted August 27, 2016 Yes indeed, Jim. Honored to be able to read from Larry's wide knowledge through his indomitable wit. You are a first class fella, Mr. Fisher. Are you writing a book, Larry? If not...will remain delighted to learn from you here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobilemike Posted August 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2016 I feel very lucky to be able to pick the brains of all of you talented people. -Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinTheMixer Posted August 31, 2016 Report Share Posted August 31, 2016 Couldn't you just open the xlr and attach (solder) leads at that point? Or is that just a regulated output? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted August 31, 2016 Report Share Posted August 31, 2016 Couldn't you just open the xlr and attach (solder) leads at that point? Or is that just a regulated output? The one pictured in this thread is not the adaptor the OP is talking about, it is just an example. On his version all outputs are regulated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinTheMixer Posted August 31, 2016 Report Share Posted August 31, 2016 1 hour ago, Constantin said: The one pictured in this thread is not the adaptor the OP is talking about, it is just an example. On his version all outputs are regulated. I was afraid of that. Hmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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