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daniel

wingman?

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8 hours ago, Constantin said:

Oh I seriously hope they will never implement iPad mixing

 

24 minutes ago, Constantin said:

Besides, in my opinion, I'd prefer it if SD wouldn't divert resources for this

Opinions are all well and good, but the above statements are exclusionary and will not help advance progressive ideas and technology. 

Many people were wary of wireless mics in the beginning, and look at us now.  Countless bemoaned the touch screens of 1gen iPhones ("I need real buttons not a piece of glass") and look at us now. 

By excluding the tech or even asking that SD or anyone else not even try to advance current technology is Luddite thinking that only hobbles forward motion.

Your home must be full of remoteless CRT televisions and rotary dial phones... Which is totally fine just don't force the rest of us to stay in the past with you. 

 

Cheers,

Evan

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Your home must be full of remoteless CRT televisions and rotary dial phones... Which is totally fine just don't force the rest of us to stay in the past with you. 

Oh my, that would be lovely. Unfortunately though...

Look, you are totally blowing this out of proportion. I love new technology and advancements in all kinds of areas. It's just that in this particular case, I hope for them to work on other things first, as there are so many things that I'd rather see than this. You may find it selfish, but this is only an expressed hope - my own hope.

Don't worry, though, my clout with SD is not great enough that they will be swayed in either direction by this.

I don't get what the big hoopla is. Someone requested a feature, and someone else doesn't like it. It doesn't need to be turned into a big "you're stuck in the past, robbing us of cool new features" kind of discussion

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The differences between touch screens and tactile controls will probably be dealt with, as touch screens will be able to create tactile responses (ie create "edges" around an object on the screen, so that when for example dragging a virtual fader, the screen can make you "feel" the fader). I think there are companies developing these sorts of things already. If I didn't dream it...

That said, I agree that I wouldn't want an iPad mixing feature. Mainly because.. Why would SD go so low when their mixers are perfected and very very very good? I mean if they would they'd be putting themselves out of business in a way.. They'd have to release a 744t style recorder without mixing features but iPad mixing capabilites. And then It'd have to be the same price as the zoom, and why would they want to compete with that? They're premium,Zoom isn't. SD works fine out of the box apart from the zoom where you need the iPad to gain that very essential function.


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Derek H   

How are you going to mix a multi-person scene with several wireless mics and booms on a piece of glass? Especially when your eyes need to go back and forth between a video monitor and the recorder for levels... Unless the interface can track your fingers somehow when they wander off course.

 

Anyway mixing on a wifi "pad" is a nice thing for installed sound engineers so they can wander an acoustic space and tweak but pretty dubious for production sound if you ask me.

 

Good job sound devices for providing a useful, reasonably priced, add-on to an already competent machine.

 

Would be nice if modern recorders were equipped with a simple "display out" BNC so you can view the display on the screen size of your choice. 

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Boomboom   

Even if some of you wouldn't mix on an iPad (and neither would I), there happens to be a special occasion coming up for me where I'd be glad to try it: shooting on canoes. I'd put my 633 in a SealLine backpack and mix from the iPad. I could do that with the F8, still not with the 633. Wish I had the option with the 633, which really doesn't mean I'd follow that route on a regular basis.


 

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They had to do this.  Lots of people really like i-device style control of their gear, it's a major sell-point for F8 etc.  I'm glad SD didn't compromise anything on the machines themselves re: doing the same tasks the iPad will be able to do, and already some people are really enjoying having this feature.  If nothing else it's a cheap add that makes a harmless little change or variation in our world.

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been using WM for a few days now.its not for mixing.great app for control,meta data and sending reports.

completely eliminates the keyboard.its like how I always wanted CL wifi to work.

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Derek H   

Just watched the IBC video with Paul Isaacs... yes with CL12 you just plug the dongle into the keyboard USB. Yes, you need to buy WMconnect as it's proprietary. But it's only $75.

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VAS   

Basically, I still have my CRT television; which has better color than my plasma. 

Nice addition to 6 series line. A great example to not have only one port for those type of upgrades. Or for the new line. 

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DanieldH   

My 2 cent: If the thing does the job that CL-wifi promised, I'll buy it. period. Integration for TonmeisterApp, Movieslate or any 3rd party tech would be great, but will depend on 3rd parties even more.

@daniel We'll see. The WM connect thing does look like a "generic" BTadapter, though it would depend on what drivers/kernel modules SD implements in their firmware. So it'll depend accordingly and mainly on the chipset used by whatever "generic" device you try. The price (compared to CL-wifi) and SDs fitted USB-adapter would be reason enough for me, not to look for a cheaper rebuild.

@Constantin I do not want to chime in the way you've been contradicted before. As I understand, (correct me if I am wrong,) you do mainly fictional cart work. However, if you've ever done a one (sound)man shoot in the wadden sea or documented some alpine hiking trip, you'd be really happy about every gram that's in your backpack (or on a "mule") instead of a soundbag in front of your belly, regardless what harness you use and favour this over responsivity of your user interface. Yes, Idevices are not professional tools, but at least, there is a variety of rugging cases, aquapacs, arm or polemounts, etc to choose from. It would be at least a little step to loosing bellybumping soundbags after all, with future potential, having SuperSlot remotability in mind.

It is, yet again, unfortunate, though understandable that SD focuses exclusively on IOS. I guess that's what most people in this industry are familiar with and therefore they focus on this selling point instead of interoperability that generates issues and user support with countless individual devices.

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9 hours ago, Derek H said:

Just watched the IBC video with Paul Isaacs... yes with CL12 you just plug the dongle into the keyboard USB. Yes, you need to buy WMconnect as it's proprietary. But it's only $75.

60 bucks.

totally worth it

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I used it on my iPhone most of the day on my cart/688/cl-12 set up, but then for a bit on my iPad Pro which works well but I'd love it to work Horizontal on that device but so far it only works vertical. Hopefully that will become an option soon. At the end of the day I sent my 633 bag off on a tow rig and 3 wires on the actors and rolled it w my iPhone Wingman app. Certainly cool for me. At $60-$70 bucks it's not even a question in my world. Getting a second one for the 633 full time.   Thanks SD. This for me really rounds out the 6 series recorders.

CrewC

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However, if you've ever done a one (sound)man shoot in the wadden sea or documented some alpine hiking trip, you'd be really happy about every gram that's in your backpack (or on a "mule") instead of a soundbag in front of your belly, regardless what harness you use and favour this over responsivity of your user interface. Yes, Idevices are not professional tools, but at least, there is a variety of rugging cases, aquapacs, arm or polemounts, etc to choose from. It would be at least a little step to loosing bellybumping soundbags after all, with future potential, having SuperSlot remotability in mind.

I don't question the need for some sort of remote mixing capability. In fact, I would be thrilled if it came along.

However, I wouldn't want it to be done on an iPad, especially with linear faders, but I think in the scenario you describe linear fader mixing is pretty rare (maybe Cantar users...).

The route Zaxcom has chosen, for example, makes a lot more sense to me. Translated to the SD world, this would mean to have something like a CL-8 plus Wingman. Mixing and transport would be done on a dedicated hardware interface (ideally connected by cable), other control on the iPad. Just wouldn't want to have to rely solely on the iPad for everything. And SD already have 80% of the technology.

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millar   

Just got my wingman. I was a bit surprised that there was no prompt to pair or password or anything. What keeps someone else from connecting to my recorder if I walk away from the cart and have my phone in my pocket (go out of bluetooth range)?

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11 hours ago, millar said:

Just got my wingman. I was a bit surprised that there was no prompt to pair or password or anything. What keeps someone else from connecting to my recorder if I walk away from the cart and have my phone in my pocket (go out of bluetooth range)?

Interesting. A friend of mine uses speakers for VOG that have s similar issue. The Bluetooth only allows for changes in EQ or something, but mutes the speaker when hooked up. When the curious browser logs off the speaker without properly exiting, it remains muted and can only be reset manually by powering off the speaker. Not useful when built into sets. 

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From my tests, only one device can be in logged in and controlling a recorder at a time.   Not a security issue.

CrewC

21 hours ago, millar said:

Just got my wingman. I was a bit surprised that there was no prompt to pair or password or anything. What keeps someone else from connecting to my recorder if I walk away from the cart and have my phone in my pocket (go out of bluetooth range)?

 

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DanieldH   
On 14.9.2016 at 7:31 AM, Constantin said:

I don't question the need for some sort of remote mixing capability. In fact, I would be thrilled if it came along.

However, I wouldn't want it to be done on an iPad, especially with linear faders, but I think in the scenario you describe linear fader mixing is pretty rare (maybe Cantar users...).

The route Zaxcom has chosen, for example, makes a lot more sense to me. Translated to the SD world, this would mean to have something like a CL-8 plus Wingman. Mixing and transport would be done on a dedicated hardware interface (ideally connected by cable), other control on the iPad. Just wouldn't want to have to rely solely on the iPad for everything. And SD already have 80% of the technology.

Just to clarify terminology here:
Are you discouraging "linear fader" implementations on touchscreens or remotability by devices from that fruity company?

My interest is as much remotability as possible, including SuperslotRX (and even TX?), transport, metadata, whatever settings, gain, fader, etc. A water resistant touchscreen  could be useful for me, depending on the task. It does not apply for latency sensitive mixing of radioed lavs according to some scripted screenplay, but it does for docu style when lavs are open most of the time and only need to be level-mached. A "linear" wipe for gain and fader does make more ergonomic sense than some rotary gesture.

Talking "dedicated hardware": I'd love to see an API/IOcodetable to custom build such an interface or let 3rd parties do so. 1st thing I'd want is boom mounted, "wireless" with tactile buttons and a small display.

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Just to clarify terminology here:
Are you discouraging "linear fader" implementations on touchscreens or remotability by devices from that fruity company?

I'm not so much discouraging it - that sounds like I'd actually be doing something about it, which I'm not. Other than posting in a forum.

Rotary faders on an iPad would even make less sense to me. It's the iPad (or its counterparts from other manufacturers) which I wouldn't want to use for anything critical.
That includes:
Mixing of any kind
Gain
Monitoring
Transport

Things like Metadata, activating tracks, routing, etc. I'd be fine doing on a tablet.
For the critical stuff, I think an SD built controller would be awesome. On the Deva 24 you can remote the front panel - something like that would be cool.
SD did have that CL-1 (?) which was a boom mountable fader, as well as basic transport. That could perhaps be expanded on.

Btw, remoteability is useful for cart work, too. It potentially give the option of setting up the cart in totally different ways.

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osa   
On 9/18/2016 at 6:40 AM, TomBoisseau said:

Has anyone experimented with a 3rd party bluetooth dongle and if so have you found any that are compatible with the Sound Devices recorders and the Wingman app?

Tom

 

+1 - seems to be a hot item, usual susp's i have checked with say all out of stock and that sound devices has a backorder currently.

-Ken

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