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RPSharman

688/788T setup - For extra tracks - Thoughts?

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I'd like to propose a setup to the group. 95% of everything I do works on 8 or fewer channels, so I am using my 788T. The other 5% can be made to work (retuning the venue mid-stream, or simply getting the missing characters in coverage, etc.) - My new idea is to get a 688 to bring those extra channels in, but I don't want to give up my Solice. Not really interested in CL12 (yet). So I thought I could buy a 688, record a mix and 8 ISOs from the Solice, and on days with more than 8 channels required (more mics or playback), I can use the 788T with a CL9 to deliver more faders, or just the 788T on MixAssist into Ch 8 on Solice. In both cases feeding extra ISO tracks from the 788T outputs to the 688, so I can deliver on file with all tracks.

I can also use 788T as "master", and trigger rolling both machines from my remote roll button on Solice (788T TC triggers 688 upon rolling).

If I wanted to be even more clever, I could send mix and 8 ISOs to 688 from Solice, as well as 4 ISOs from 788T, then also send mix and boom ISOs from Solice to 788T as backup.

Am I missing anything obvious? Any flaws I haven't thought of? Obviously, for ease, I'll need the 788T permanently riding on the cart, which isn't ideal. Or I can just have it in a bag with proper cables ready to plop on top of the cart for those few and far between days.

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The big deal for me would be dealing with data entry and file management off two multitracks instead of one.  You are kind of flying two planes at once, right?  When I did this I just found it all got a little hairy when things were moving and changing fast.  I wish there was a way to hook up two 6xx machines so you could address all tracks from a single keyboard and iPad etc.  A more common way to do what you want is to have your recorder as the primary machine and roll BU and extras to a computer based rig (like BR), which might be a little more straightforward once you get it all set up on your cart.  But I think the best way might be to keep your 788 for bag+car etc work and go to one of the SD compact multitracks (970), then you have tracks for days all one one machine (once you work out the MADI etc conversion from your mixer).  Maybe Deva 24?  My own current solution for this is an analog-in JoeCo.  I like it it but it's not for everyone...

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I would strongly consider the  688-CL-12...  It seems to work just great... I heard a complaint there is no gain pot... well, its on the 688 and I have no problem with it... My 688 sits RIGHT behind the console, so it's all in the same "spot" ...

    Love working on the CL-12... I have no regrets... It has made my life so much easier... and the Dugan auto mix, AWESOME, I use it all the time with GREAT success...  Just great...  It has made those days with many wireless with no rehearsals and sometimes improved lines a dream... I can at least use it to lay down a mix track WHILE I see whats happening when we don't get proper rehearsals, or, see only one... but, it sounds so good, I many times let it go... it simply opens up mics and shuts them, much of the time time better than I could manually from script or memory..

With mix tracks AND 12 inputs you should be good to go on just one machine...  My set up has been ROCK SOLID!!  no problems or issues at all.. 

The 688-CL-12 to ME now feels WAY ahead of the much loved 788-CL-9...  although the guts of the 788 are fantastic.    I came from one as well...

But will you miss your mixer?    Maybe,   but I think you will quickly get over it.. and end up very happy....like me.

my .02

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Plus 1 to AFMY comments. I still have my Solice and it sounds great as the front end to my Apollo 16 home studio (along with my old 1st wave Cooper 106). Analog is great, but I don't miss it at all with my CL-12, SL-6, 688, Venue system that I use for commercial work. I had many of your same thoughts before I made the switch Robert. I don't miss my old system as it's always there if I want or need it.

CrewC

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Brett Grant-Grearson (sp?) does/did what you're suggesting - sending the extra channels that wouldn't fit into his 8 pot Sonosax into his 788 and having the 788 automix those channels, then sent that mix into his 8th pot on the Sonosax to be mixed into his Master mix track on his "A" machine.  I thought it was a brilliant work around. On scenes with 8+ characters, the "+" characters usually only have a line or two. Just shove them on to the 788 with the automix. 

On the other hand, It's only 3 grand for the CL-12 ... problem solved.  

Yet, on the other hand, won't you miss the ease of routing your "outs" from a REAL mixing board?

...what to do....what to do...

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Is 12 + 2 mix enough for you?  Then I agree the 688+fader box is the simple way to go: light and low DC draw too.  For me I'm only just getting started @ 12 inputs, so whatever it is has to have at least twice as many tracks.

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12 tracks (1 mix and 11 ISO) is ample for me. And I probably wouldn't do much metadata entry on 788T other than scene number. I have had BR computer setup before. It's not a very efficient system for the amount of practical location work I do.

My concern with the CL12 for narrative work is that there are no limiters on inputs 7-12. Nobody else seems very concerned by it, so I am not sure why I am. My Solice also has no resale value, which makes it a bitter pill to swallow having it sit unused somewhere. I don't really have space for it either.

I also am looking to limit my investment currently. I have a 664 in the bag with 411s, so that will stay there. I thought about buying another 664 instead of a 688 to accomplish the above, but it seems foolish to limit upgrade possibilities. 

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I didn't know that about the limiters and I'd be worried about that, too. Although, realistically those inputs are probably fed from wireless rx and those will have been limited already. As long as your gain structure is right, this shouldn't become a problem

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I don't like the limiters on Lectro transmitters, so would need the ISO to be quite low under normal circumstances to protect for peaks. Not ideal, but not a deal breaker, I guess.

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Robert, One thing to keep in mind is Latency between units, this will cause a lot of phasing issues. I used my 664 for extra ISO tracks and feed mix into 788t.. Few mill delay going out the 664 digital so switched to Analog out and that helped. At the time Output limiters on 664 were rough.. Currently my extra tracks rig is a Firewire interface with Boom Recorder timecode locked with 788t. I use a Midi Control surface to interface with MOTU Cuemix on Interface.  Latency there also but about on par with 664. This will work for me until I can afford the X3 or see what Sound Devices might do. I haven't had to use the extended tracks rig in a while and have also considered picking up a 2nd 788t and connect them together.. Guys dumping them cheap these days..

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I used to have 2x 788T - Sold my backup (which I used in the bag) when I was able to get a 664 at an excellent price.

There are just too many things I don't like about a control surface, including the CL12.

Given how infrequently I use more than 7 ISO tracks, I don't want to give up the Solice. The idea of using the CL9 for additional inputs seemed like a good idea, just to have the linear faders. I am not overly concerned with occasional phasing issues on the mix track. I'm confident that any show I work on will be using ISO tracks once I get into 6 or 7+ radio mics. At least I hope so!

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On 12/09/2016 at 10:58 AM, RPSharman said:

12 tracks (1 mix and 11 ISO) is ample for me. And I probably wouldn't do much metadata entry on 788T other than scene number. I have had BR computer setup before. It's not a very efficient system for the amount of practical location work I do.

My concern with the CL12 for narrative work is that there are no limiters on inputs 7-12. Nobody else seems very concerned by it, so I am not sure why I am. My Solice also has no resale value, which makes it a bitter pill to swallow having it sit unused somewhere. I don't really have space for it either.

I also am looking to limit my investment currently. I have a 664 in the bag with 411s, so that will stay there. I thought about buying another 664 instead of a 688 to accomplish the above, but it seems foolish to limit upgrade possibilities. 

I finally have come to this conversation. I've been using Wisycom MTP40S transmitters for the past few years and they have a wonderful limiter built in. I have rarely ever looked at engaging a limiter on my recorder, whether it's a 788 or 688 or 970 and enjoy a clean AES signal path all the way home.

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