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Tong0615

How to wire a hairy talent

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Hello, I got today lots of problem with a very hairy talent, he was wearing a pullover, and a shirt under the pullover, so, I tried several things with the SANKEN COS-11 and RM, like on the top of Pullover near throat, a little bit lower on the chest stick on the pullover, but all didn't work, every time he moves, I got whether clothing noise, or noise against his chest hair.. As many colleagues here has for sure more experience then me, I would like to ask, what would you do in this situation? where would it works the best? Which Mic would you prefer to use? (I also have other mics like VT506, DPA4063, DPA SLIM). Thanks. 

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Sometimes I do this to test for bad physical clothing noise...At some point, place a boom over him...close... again just a test...  Have him move around... If you can hear the noise of the clothing through the boom mic then, there you have it.. Physical clothing noise... If you hear it through a boom, you can bet you will hear it through the lavs mounted on, under or around those noisy shirts....Longtime audio professionals get a feeling for this right off the bat...Sometime the clothes rubbing on itself, other clothes, chest hair directly under miked shirt or beard stubble around neck are simply loud and you will hear it no matter what.

  This "test" with the boom can also be used to show wardrobe or others concerned.... Of course you can get creative, glasses, hats, hair rigs or other mounting options... but, many times, the loud fabric is what it is...

 Wardrobe dept. can of course help... many times they do... and many times they don't... Often they like what they like, if it looks good on camera, they win... and you lose... at least showing them that you can hear it through the boom proves your point...

If you are on a long show, have a meeting with them BEFORE the show starts and make sure they understand the importance of wardrobe not just looking good, but being lav friendly... Explain to them that you will most likely live and die by the choice of their wardrobe materials...  These days Lavs and wireless are crucial to you providing post with what they need and bailing you out of todays multi camera wide and tight shots...Make sure they use undershirts whenever possible on Males to also help you out... 

 Also, discuss the difficult wardrobe with the talent... let them know it is problematic and you will be constantly adjusting it... apologize and be polite... they will be much more receptive of the day to come for both of you..

It's all you can do..  

 

ALSO READ TIPS on SHIRT NOISE also in this General discussions area...

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I've had to deal with laving a chest-hairy actor a lot, and I often ended up mounting the lav on his skin but lower than usual, like 5 cm below the chest where there is less hair. Sometimes worked. Other times, like when he was sitting, his stomach "ate" the mic. Sometimes instead I went up, right to the top of a T-shirt's neck for example. Undershirts sometimes helped but more often made things more difficult because then I had two layers rubbing against each other. Another option, however sometimes utopian, is to mount the lav in the talent's hairline. But that requires make up's (doable) and talent's (more difficult) goodwill and cooperation.

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AFMY's response should be a sticky.  That's the world we live in, and the most experienced soundie in that world can get as sandbagged by this issue as a newbie.  Filmmaking is a team sport, and perceptive experienced professionals in each dept understand that in addition to doing your own job, you have to try and make sure that the doing of your job isn't causing undue problems for other depts.  But....there are plenty of folks who don't feel obligated to work this way, and the sound dept is a frequent victim of this if only because so few other crew members can actually hear the results of the problems they are causing for you.  There is also, frankly, a certain "food-chain" element to this situation too, as in who is perceived to be higher up same, right?  We've all encountered the situation where we are told that problems caused by location, lighting, grip, wardrobe, talent and camera are "our problems" not theirs.  This always makes me smile, since I know that ultimately these problems will NOT be mine, but the director's.  And so we move on.

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I wonder how many threads here are devoted to this issue by now? This surely indicates the scope of the problem. I've read and read, and I don't think I've found them all. After a particularly hairy day, I went home and made a whole list of items (from these posts). I then devoted a complete Tundra case to 'things that quiet lavs', and began to fill it up with stuff from these threads. I still get days where I just can't win. 

Hang in there Tong0615. 

 

 

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+1 on the 'if you hear it on the boom, you'll hear it on the wire' camp. That being said, a rig that exposes a B6 to open air, and backs it with something slightly insulating to rustle tends to get me past the Wookiee types. 

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On September 26, 2016 at 5:13 AM, Tong0615 said:

Hello, I got today lots of problem with a very hairy talent, he was wearing a pullover, and a shirt under the pullover, so, I tried several things with the SANKEN COS-11 and RM, like on the top of Pullover near throat, a little bit lower on the chest stick on the pullover, but all didn't work, every time he moves, I got whether clothing noise, or noise against his chest hair.. As many colleagues here has for sure more experience then me, I would like to ask, what would you do in this situation? where would it works the best? Which Mic would you prefer to use? (I also have other mics like VT506, DPA4063, DPA SLIM). Thanks. 

If the guy was wearing both a shirt and a pullover, how were you hearing chest hair noise unless you were mounted under his shirt ? While I use my own mounts, an RM stuck to the inside of a pullover with a shirt underneath is usually a trouble-free mount unless both garments are Under Armour (love to buy it, HATE to work with it).

-An RM with stick-it, stuck to the inside of the pullover. A Rycote Overcover stuck to the opposite side of the RM, so it is between the pullover and the shirt. The overcover does well at defeating both rubbing against a garment AND a hairy chest. 

The real issue may be that you cannot yet differentiate between acoustic and contact noise, so you don't know how to solve the issue on the day. Keep plowing forward and you'll find that your lav technique will start growing rapidly.

Keep failing with faith...it gets significantly easier (until it don't...lol)

best,

steven

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Having more than one make / model of lav mic in your kit helps. Most of my lavs are COS-11d's which certainly is the go-to, but a Countryman B6 can be a real problem solver. It's small enough to just barely poke out from under a tie knot, or a shirt button hole, or top stick taped over the top of an ear or even above the forehead in the hair if there's enough time to rig it. B6 w/o a windscreen is crazy wind (breath even) sensitive so using them indoors when taking advantage of their dimenuitive size by hiding them is helpful.

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On October 2, 2016 at 3:56 AM, atheisticmystic said:

A Rycote Overcover stuck to the opposite side of the RM, so it is between the pullover and the shirt. The overcover does well at defeating both rubbing against a garment AND a hairy chest. 

^ I remember the day I thought of this reverse over cover idea (not RM, but moleskin blanket/topstick) and yes it is a substantial trick to have in the bag.

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13 hours ago, JimKeaney said:

^ I remember the day I thought of this reverse over cover idea (not RM, but moleskin blanket/topstick) and yes it is a substantial trick to have in the bag.

Like you, I use mine with a moleskin mummy bag. And they stay on there on while; skipping across gigs on occasion.

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 I am fighting the exteriors with hairy chest and thin t shirt fight.  No undershirts are allowed according to the costume designer.  It seems that all the men in this show were cast based on how much hair they had on their chests. For most of them I have been able to put a big piece of moleskin in the "I do pushups" spot and stick a cos-11 in an overcover on that, but for some reason the moleskin won't stick for long on one main actor.  I've tried using an alcohol swab or using topstick on the moleskin.  It has been really windy so I need the overcover which has been keeping me from trying a b6 in the neckline.  I have a piece of coban that I thought I might try like a mic bra tomorrow but I'm afraid it will show.  I am pretty sure I am aware of most of the suggestions already posted here, but thought I might ask anyway, or at least whine a little.  Specifically I am wondering if anyone has used coban with success under a tight t shirt and also what might be a better tiny wind screen for a b6 at the collar?

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1 minute ago, ElanorR said:

 I am fighting the exteriors with hairy chest and thin t shirt fight.  No undershirts are allowed according to the costume designer.  It seems that all the men in this show were cast based on how much hair they had on their chests. For most of them I have been able to put a big piece of moleskin in the "I do pushups" spot and stick a cos-11 in an overcover on that, but for some reason the moleskin won't stick for long on one main actor.  I've tried using an alcohol swab or using topstick on the moleskin.  It has been really windy so I need the overcover which has been keeping me from trying a b6 in the neckline.  I have a piece of coban that I thought I might try like a mic bra tomorrow but I'm afraid it will show.  I am pretty sure I am aware of most of the suggestions already posted here, but thought I might ask anyway, or at least whine a little.  Specifically I am wondering if anyone has used coban with success under a tight t shirt and also what might be a better tiny wind screen for a b6 at the collar?

 

You need to have a real conversation with the costume designer and involve the producer if necessary. The compromise of an unseen undershirt in order to get better sound tracks should be made. Honestly, we're a department head too. Why are people so afraid of other department heads? We are their equals. If you need undershirts to get sound, then have them put on undershirts FFS!

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You are right of course.  She has not been a team player so far, it might be time to involve someone higher up.

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I did one show with a crazy necklace they wanted the lead to wear. We had several walk and talks scripted. The character was frantic and walked briskly. I basically said that I would be happy to do whatever they wanted. If they wanted ADR and the necklace, I can do that. Happy to do it. But if they want to not have to ADR, then a different solution was required. They chose not to ADR.

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30 minutes ago, RPSharman said:

 

You need to have a real conversation with the costume designer and involve the producer if necessary. The compromise of an unseen undershirt in order to get better sound tracks should be made. Honestly, we're a department head too. Why are people so afraid of other department heads? We are their equals. If you need undershirts to get sound, then have them put on undershirts FFS!

I will first bring it up to the wardrobe dept.  and play polite as usual... if that goes south, I will demand them if necessary and call it out to the producer...  My day is not going down the toilet because wardrobe didn't properly have a t shirt on hand.. or refuses to help out by getting talent into one... 

 

  If it is star talent and they refuse, well, then it is what it is, record the best you can and live to fight another day..  Make proper note though..

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Great attitudes and replies folks!

 

Yes is it a noise generated by the hair/clothing or is it mike/hair generated or is it clothing/clothing ?

 

A careful listen with the talent standing by you may start the quest.

An under shirt may help

Is the clothing man made fiber (had that problem last week)

Does the talent shave his chest? (been her done that)

Once had a young Microsoft exec, hairy chest - crisp clean shirt

and the solution was a B6 high on the hem of the shirt.

 

Try try try however boring is the only solution

Good luck

 

mike

 

 

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 I figure I ought to add to the collective wiring knowledge by reporting back on how the day went.  I talked to the costume designer first thing this morning with AD backup and had no luck getting an undershirt so i tried a black coban wrap under the tight dark blue t shirt: One wrap around then a cos 11 in an overcover covered with one more wrap with just the end sticking out.  We had 30 mile an hour winds on a walk and talk next to the water and the wire sounded great, didn't show, and the hairy very active (and cold) talent was happy not to worry about tape coming loose.  We will do it again tomorrow on the beach.  

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Great to hear! So now there's another use for coban in my kit, I usually keep it around for ad-hoc transmitter belt type use, in case I don't have the size I need or if I don't have enough of them. Thanks for reporting back!

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