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I have gotten ripped off by a JWSOUND member


MartinTheMixer

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39 minutes ago, Wandering Ear said:

Fortunately it seems like this has been resolved.  I don't know the details, but If paid via PayPal, I believe their buyer protection could help in this situation too.

My particular situation has been resolved although I'm sure they will continue to sell on here. If I had not found the other person that also bought a transmitter that needed repair from the same person in the same week, I likely never would have gotten a refund. The only thing that got the refund was that they got caught. I'm still out $55.00. I'm not sure I would call that resolved either.

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22 minutes ago, MartinTheMixer said:

My particular situation has been resolved although I'm sure they will continue to sell on here. If I had not found the other person that also bought a transmitter that needed repair from the same person in the same week, I likely never would have gotten a refund. The only thing that got the refund was that they got caught. I'm still out $55.00. I'm not sure I would call that resolved either.

call or msg him and ask for the $55.

politely.

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Always pay with PayPal. Proper PayPal. These are professional transactions between professional colleagues. If someone is your true friend, then do as you wish, but there's a reason PayPal offers buyer protection.

What we sell have serial numbers and our reputation attached, so this sort of issue is VERY VERY rare.

While it is bad to get something broken, with a proper transaction, both parties are protected. Sometimes shit happens.

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10 minutes ago, RPSharman said:

Always pay with PayPal. Proper PayPal. These are professional transactions between professional colleagues. If someone is your true friend, then do as you wish, but there's a reason PayPal offers buyer protection.

What we sell have serial numbers and our reputation attached, so this sort of issue is VERY VERY rare.

While it is bad to get something broken, with a proper transaction, both parties are protected. Sometimes shit happens.

RP, thank you for that. I do appreciate it. I used PayPal friends and family and that may have been part of what led him to think he could just keep my money and not give me a product as agreed. The seller may have led himself into a belief that he was protected because it was sent friends and family. But that just gives a Seller Protection from PayPal, that does not give protection from the Court. He would have found that out had he not returned my money. The Court does not concern itself with the method of delivery of payment. I could have thrown cash out the car window at high speed and it landed in his yard and he said he received the money. It doesn't matter how he got the money, he did get it. 

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PayPal buyer protection would be a much easier way to get your money than going to court, and this situation is exactly why it exists.  You are not friends with this person, you are buying goods from them, and imo the payment should be made as such.  We are all professionals running a business, and should treat each other and our transactions as such.

It's too bad you have to deal with this, I like to think (hope) it's not a common occurrence in our community, the wtb/wts section has served me well.

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44 minutes ago, Wandering Ear said:

PayPal buyer protection would be a much easier way to get your money than going to court, and this situation is exactly why it exists.  You are not friends with this person, you are buying goods from them, and imo the payment should be made as such.  We are all professionals running a business, and should treat each other and our transactions as such.

It's too bad you have to deal with this, I like to think (hope) it's not a common occurrence in our community, the wtb/wts section has served me well.

Wandering, I think you can read the previous post. There is no buyer protection when you send the money via the family and friends plan on PayPal. Which as I mentioned earlier might have led a dishonest seller into believing that he had protection not only from PayPal but from the Court, which is not the case.

Sincerely, Martin 

 

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We are both saying that you made an error bypassing PayPal's protection by choosing to avoid the fees, claiming you are "friends".

As a seller I happily pay the fees. As a buyer, I will offer to pay the fee if the seller doesn't want to.

You may be "right" and have legal recourse to get your money back, but it would be a huge hassle. Just like if you enter a crosswalk without looking for cars. If a car hits you, you will have had the right of way, but there you are in the hospital with broken legs.

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2 minutes ago, RPSharman said:

We are both saying that you made an error bypassing PayPal's protection by choosing to avoid the fees, claiming you are "friends".

As a seller I happily pay the fees. As a buyer, I will offer to pay the fee if the seller doesn't want to.

You may be "right" and have legal recourse to get your money back, but it would be a huge hassle. Just like if you enter a crosswalk without looking for cars. If a car hits you, you will have had the right of way, but there you are in the hospital with broken legs.

RP, there are no guarantees that if you pay the fees through PayPal that you will get a refund. To the contrary, their investigation is going to be very short. I'm still out money on this deal and a whole lot of wasted time. 

Thank you, Martin 

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10 minutes ago, John Blankenship said:

Like most disputes, there is usually a satisfactory resolution available.  Of course there are exceptions, but it typically works best when things are kept low key and rational.

Kudos to Rado for helping to see that happen.

John, while I certainly appreciate any help Rado provided, I think the "resolution" was mostly helped by me being able to tell the seller that I knew about the other buyer that he sold the Identical product to in the same week that was also in need of repair. When you ship a guy a transmitter that set at 53 DB, you know it's broken when you shipped it. When I plugged the mic in, which I think is what we all do when we get a transmitter, I could yell into the mic and it barely showed on the input screen  on the transmitter. So of course I went to the gain screen thinking it  just needed to be turned up. It was at 53, the max. The seller turned it up to 53db thinking I was incredibly stupid, I guess, and wouldn't notice. 

There shouldn't have been any need for Rado to tell the guy that he needed to give a refund. The seller had the product back all he had to do was hit refund. He refunded the money when he didn't have much of a choice. I have sold to 3 different buyers in the last 2 weeks on here, they all paid with friends and family and haven't had any problems. No one has to" force" me to give a refund. Thanks for your input.

Martin

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2 minutes ago, MartinTheMixer said:

...

I have sold to 3 different buyers in the last 2 weeks on here, they all paid with friends and family and haven't had any problems. No one has to" force" me to give a refund. Thanks for your input.

With all due respect, Martin, while calling out someone for what you seem to think is dishonest dealing, you advocate using "Friends and Family" for commercial transactions, which is a way to cheat PayPal out of their commission.  A bit of a double standard from where I sit.  

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29 minutes ago, John Blankenship said:

With all due respect, Martin, while calling out someone for what you seem to think is dishonest dealing, you advocate using "Friends and Family" for commercial transactions, which is a way to cheat PayPal out of their commission.  A bit of a double standard from where I sit.  

John, I have had this conversation with PayPal and they have no objections to someone sending money however they want to send it. You made an assumption that PayPal considers this cheating. I'm not sure where the double standard would be. So, PayPal has no belief that they've been cheated and if not for finding the other buyer that had a similar problem I would have remained cheated. And let's not forget I'm still out $55 and a very large chunk of time, because of a dishonest seller.

Thank you, Martin 

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44 minutes ago, MartinTheMixer said:

John, I have had this conversation with PayPal and they have no objections to someone sending money however they want to send it. You made an assumption that PayPal considers this cheating. I'm not sure where the double standard would be. So, PayPal has no belief that they've been cheated and if not for finding the other buyer that had a similar problem I would have remained cheated. And let's not forget I'm still out $55 and a very large chunk of time, because of a dishonest seller.

Thank you, Martin 

PayPal may be ok with sending money through Friends and Family, but they also make no guarantees of anything being resolved if the transaction goes wrong. 

So you chose to use a method with no guarantees of dispute resolution, then you are on here complaining that the situation was not resolved to your satisfaction. That's a bit of a double standard. 

-Mike

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5 minutes ago, Mobilemike said:

PayPal may be ok with sending money through Friends and Family, but they also make no guarantees of anything being resolved if the transaction goes wrong. 

So you chose to use a method with no guarantees of dispute resolution, then you are on here complaining that the situation was not resolved to your satisfaction. That's a bit of a double standard. 

-Mike

Mike, I guess I could cut and paste the definition of double standard, but I think everyone on here knows what that term means, I hope. That doesn't fit here. There should not have to be any dispute resolution inside this site when someone takes your money and you are left without a product. That's right on the border of the legal definition of theft. People should not be forced to do the right thing. As I mentioned in an earlier post I have sold in the last 15 days to 3 different JW members and all three used family and friends. Not one of those people needed to worry about me giving them a refund if something wasn't what they thought it was. I didn't worry about having to give them a refund because the items I sold were exactly what I told them they would be. PayPal doesn't "guarantee" that the resolution will be in your favor even if you are ripped off. This seller is using this site to sell his broken items and using eBay to sell his functional items. 

Thank you, Martin 

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Another way to look at it, perhaps, is that we could have avoided some of the BS if the person on the other side of the transaction came forward and posted under his/her own name and gave their side of the story. As others have said, there are two sides to every story. I haven't read every post in this thread, but it looks like Martin didn't publicly out the person. But presumably that person has seen this thread and has chosen not to explain his/her actions.

Sure, things could have gone smoother here. But I'd say the seller carries a large chunk of the burden for us all being in the dark.

So seller, what's your take on this (or perhaps these) sales transactions? 

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Quoted from PayPal:

"If an eligible item that you’ve bought online doesn’t arrive, or doesn’t match the seller’s description, our Buyer Protection will reimburse you for the full amount of the item plus postage and packaging costs."

So you could've avoided most of the drama, time, and any lost money if you had done the transaction properly according to PayPals terms.

Also quoted directly from PayPal:

"4.1 Receiving Personal Payments. If you are selling goods or services, you may not ask the buyer to send you a Personal Payment for the purchase. If you do so, PayPal may remove your ability to accept Personal Payments"

So yes, you are cheating PayPal by selling goods or services and asking for payment as friends and family.  It's in violation of their terms, and they can close your account for it.   I understand that your upset about how this went down, but your choice to go against the PayPal terms is one part of the situation.  It's not to say the seller wasn't in the wrong, but presumably you don't personally know the seller, and this is exactly why PayPal has buyer protection.  All i'm saying is you probably could've made things easier for yourself.

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20 minutes ago, Jim Feeley said:

Another way to look at it, perhaps, is that we could have avoided some of the BS if the person on the other side of the transaction came forward and posted under his/her own name and gave their side of the story. As others have said, there are two sides to every story. I haven't read every post in this thread, but it looks like Martin didn't publicly out the person. But presumably that person has seen this thread and has chosen not to explain his/her actions.

Sure, things could have gone smoother here. But I'd say the seller carries a large chunk of the burden for us all being in the dark.

So seller, what's your take on this (or perhaps these) sales transactions? 

Jim, yes. I agree. What say you seller? One word out of him saying any of this is not 100% accurate and I will post the whole transaction communications. Every single communication was through the messaging system and I have already screen captured every single one of them.

Sincerely, Martin 

18 minutes ago, Wandering Ear said:

Quoted from PayPal:

"If an eligible item that you’ve bought online doesn’t arrive, or doesn’t match the seller’s description, our Buyer Protection will reimburse you for the full amount of the item plus postage and packaging costs."

So you could've avoided most of the drama, time, and any lost money if you had done the transaction properly according to PayPals terms.

Also quoted directly from PayPal:

"4.1 Receiving Personal Payments. If you are selling goods or services, you may not ask the buyer to send you a Personal Payment for the purchase. If you do so, PayPal may remove your ability to accept Personal Payments"

So yes, you are cheating PayPal by selling goods or services and asking for payment as friends and family.  It's in violation of their terms, and they can close your account for it.   I understand that your upset about how this went down, but your choice to go against the PayPal terms is one part of the situation.  It's not to say the seller wasn't in the wrong, but presumably you don't personally know the seller, and this is exactly why PayPal has buyer protection.  All i'm saying is you probably could've made things easier for yourself.

Wandering, I guess you are making assumptions here, and wrongly. The passage you quoted above deals with a seller asking you to pay in that manner. That didn't happen. I chose to pay that way, so, I see where you made that assumption but that's not correct.

Thank you, Martin

1 hour ago, RadoStefanov said:

my rule is never sale to unknown people.

 

so if Martin approached me I would not have sold to him because I have no idea who he is and want to avoid all the BS that we just witnessed.

 

 

Rado, I believe you have seen the screen capture where the seller called me multiple names that most people would find very objectionable. Would you like me to print all those screen captures with your friends name on them, so that everybody can see what's going on here?

Sincerely, Martin 

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Well I've sat back letting Martin take care of himself, as you can see his demeanor. Him saying outlandish things about me and pulling numbers out of nowhere when nothing has been presented to me in that way...but I'm fine with explaining, and he hasn't technically said his real name either. I guess its worth saying since he is telling whoever wants to know through pvt messages. After now communicating with Martin and realizing that this is exactly what he wants is me to respond I do it for the sole purpose of showing the other side of his extremely damaging claims. 

#1 He is convinced I deliberately sent him a nonworking transmitter ON PURPOSE. Let me tell why this is not provable and untrue. He waived shipping insurance when I asked him in writing if he wished to have that applied. Is it possible that something in a used hardware device could be internally damaged from shipping? Yes, unlikely but is possible. The other thing to consider is that others have used my second gear package. Is it possible when I tested the transmitter that the gain was already up from someone else and the quick sweep test I do of plugging it in and making sure it goes into record and sounds decent that this issue was overlooked?...definitely...that still does not prove willful nasty intent, which he keeps repeating. 

#2 He keeps bringing up Ken as a prime example of me again trying to rip off people who I've been selling gear too. Let me be clear, in the past two weeks I have sold off a whole other entire gear package all while working 12 hour days, as we all do. I've sold 6 of these TRX2.5LA not 2 and many receivers...and other things with nice buyers and no issues and NONE on ebay. Ken immediately realized there were a couple menu items missing from the transmitters extended menu setup such as record on bootup and the card wouldn't format correctly, even though it would go into record and sounded decent before format with me, it was also on an old update version in the 8.XX where settings can be lost since I hadn't used it for awhile prior. He immediately sent the transmitter to Zaxcom and they fixed it at no cost and sent it directly back to him the same day at my cost to him being a happy customer. Yes there was an issue, but on a couple days added on to his experience he got a transmitter back inspected and approved by the manufacturer...not much better than that in the used world. I tried to do this with Martin but Martin insisted on sending it back to me for a full refund all the while from the very beginning being nasty and threatening legal recourse (I can give you our whole conversation if interested), which did eventually occur after I tested it and came to the conclusion that he probably didn't damage it or that it wasn't damaged during shipping.

#3 He opened this forum "I've been ripped off by a jwsound member!" From the time he messaged me saying it was broken til when I gave him a full refund including shipping costs was 9 days. He went from making me aware of the issue to fraud and courts and legal threats and aggression in public in 9 days, this despite me fully communicating what was going on. I received the transmitter back on Friday. Monday and Tuesday were 14 hour days so I couldn't find time to test the device and I'm closing on a house. Yesterday I was wrapped at 1pm. I tested the device and even after updating the software the problem continued. I actually sent Martin a refund BEFORE I noticed this posting, since he will only message me through jwsound. 

In no personal messages by him or communication up to this point after the full refund was $55 ever mentioned. This seemed to be brought about by him posting in halfway through this forum. Initially I would say I acted suspiciously of his demeanor, which he through email and then switched solely to jwsound messages...I thought something was odd or off by his bringing up courts and being aggressive at the first sign of a device not fully working. I've bought devices from used and new parties and have had problematic units before, it isn't unheard of but I find calm and pleasant demeanors solve the issue quicker as the buyer in that situation, so I immediately did not trust him when he switched to solely jwsound messages from email...so my reaction was indeed not to be helpful because my lack of trust and i would change that reaction if I could, but that does not mean what I did originally was in anyway willful or intentional. 

We exchanged 40 emails before any postings he sent me through jwsound. When he first bought the unit my suspicion was also heightened because he insisted that on the day of purchase I send the unit via USPS priority to him. I kindly told him that I work 12 hour days through til past the time USPS is open. He again asks if I will send via USPS, I do not know how to respond as I am working during those time periods and expressed that as such, and say I can do UPS or Fedex only. Luckily I find out I can send USPS priority through a UPS store and all is well so I thought. I do not like sending via USPS because I don't feel like a high priced item should go that way but I respected his request...this is also why I didn't respond to kindly to his first response about it being straight up broken and wanting a full refund. I then thought he tried to scam me due to all his previous emails trying to push the price down further, by using the unit a day or so and then finding a reason to dump it back to me for a full refund. I simply did not know why he was being aggressive and threatening legal recourse...when I've sold well over 20 items recently to fellow sound mixers who have been kind and understanding with no issues...and even when there was one Ken had trust that I would do the right thing by him, which I did. He keeps repeating that I wronged him in a willful way which is extremely damaging to my reputation and can have a severe impact on my career if the wrong person reads this. I do not want any kind of legal proceedings in anyway against another sound mixer (truly absurd), but if he keeps insisting these claims all over the internet I'm not sure how else to react to this. I am a member of IATSE 209, AES, and active on all sound communities online. I'm not sure how else to take these matters but very seriously.

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End this now...please.... I see it going nowhere fast.... It has been rectified.... move on... THIS is just the type of back and forth "I Believe" Jeff dislikes....  

I am glad it is now water under the bridge... whether Tim tried to get away with something, or not, whether Martin over reacted or not... is at this point un important..  Nobody dislikes anyone... nobody is pointing fingers other than the participants...SO...

MOVE ON.... be done with it...  PLEASE...

 

Kiss and make up....  we're all brothers and sisters here... lets all act like it... we're a family of sorts... let's look out FOR one another...  not poke AT one another...   Want to poke at someone...find a Producer...LOL

 

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Just now, afewmoreyears said:

End this now...please.... I see it going nowhere fast.... It has been rectified.... move on... THIS is just the type of back and forth "I Believe" Jeff dislikes....  

I am glad it is now water under the bridge... whether Tim tried to get away with something, or not, whether Martin over reacted or not... is at this point un important..  Nobody dislikes anyone... nobody is pointing fingers other than the participants...SO...

MOVE ON.... be done with it...  PLEASE...

 

Oh no, Mr. Munger had a choice to make and he made it. If he in Rado are going to blame me for Munger selling bad products, let's just get it out in the open. Again, he had a choice to make and he has made it. I'm certainly okay with that.

Sincerely, Martin 

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I get it Martin, but as one of hundreds of users of this section... I would like it to continue to be available.... Jeff has already stated ... he doesn't like this exact style of back and forth..  

At this point, nobody is holding Tims or your words to any high degree of importance... it's just static...  It's settled...

As long as you got your money... be done with it... this is making things worse, not better... be the bigger person and be done... You have already spent way more in time than the $55 you were irritated about...

I am with you... but... just be done already... It's looking foolish from both sides ...

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1 minute ago, afewmoreyears said:

I get it Martin, but as one of hundreds of users of this section... I would like it to continue to be available.... Jeff has already stated ... he doesn't like this exact style of back and forth..  

At this point, nobody is holding Tims or your words to any high degree of importance... it's just static...  It's settled...

As long as you got your money... be done with it... this is making things worse, not better... be the bigger person and be done... You have already spent way more in time than the $55 you were irritated about...

I am with you... but... just be done already... It's looking foolish from both sides ...

Few, or whatever your name might be, I agree it currently looks a little foolish, so I think I should straighten it out with some facts and let everybody read and make their own opinions in the court of public opinion. I mean the communications back and forth what's wrong with publicizing that? Then I don't have to say another word people can make their own minds up.

Sincerely, Martin 

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