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Lectro SRc field reports?

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Weird question but hang in there with me... Did you by chance have any G3 RECEIVERS switched off hanging off the side of your bag when you noticed these RF hits?

 

I've found that having a powered-off G3 IEM receiver sitting next to hops transmitters wreaks havoc with my Lectro receivers. Will create spikes all across the block. When you remove the G3 receivers from the bag and get them a few feet away or even just turn them on all the troubles go away. Totally bizarre.

 

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That is whacky. I'm gonna test that

 

13 minutes ago, Derek H said:

Weird question but hang in there with me... Did you by chance have any G3 RECEIVERS switched off hanging off the side of your bag when you noticed these RF hits?

 

I've found that having a powered-off G3 IEM receiver sitting next to hops transmitters wreaks havoc with my Lectro receivers. Will create spikes all across the block. When you remove the G3 receivers from the bag and get them a few feet away or even just turn them on all the troubles go away. Totally bizarre.

 

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4 hours ago, Derek H said:

Weird question but hang in there with me... Did you by chance have any G3 RECEIVERS switched off hanging off the side of your bag when you noticed these RF hits?

 

I've found that having a powered-off G3 IEM receiver sitting next to hops transmitters wreaks havoc with my Lectro receivers. Will create spikes all across the block. When you remove the G3 receivers from the bag and get them a few feet away or even just turn them on all the troubles go away. Totally bizarre.

 

 

That's weird! 

 

I didn't have any in the bag. Only scripty and dir had receivers, they were on and in their pockets. 

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I thought I chime in with an eMail I got from Lectros Service Manager in September, after having my SRc-C1 send in.

 

"We have a pending change to the circuit board of the SRC-C1 to improve the exact problem that you have been experiencing.  The issue is that the new wideband units, with the wider tuning range, have been more susceptible to outside interference – outside the tuning band of the unit.

 

When your SRC was here last month, the scan settings were off and were adjusted, however that did not address your entire problem.  This new PCB will have much better protection against this interference which causes symptoms of short range, bad scans, etc.  However, we do not have the final release of these improved PCBs from our engineering department yet.  Unfortunately, I don’t have a firm ETA from them either. "

 

I recently asked for an update on the case

 

"No updates as of yet.  This is a top priority in our engineering dept and we hope to have them soon.  However, we want to make sure the update it is optimal with thorough testing before releasing it.

 

I have you on my list to contact as soon as we have them available to make the repair."

 

So they are on it. Hopefully they have the new boards soon...


Cheers

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On 12/5/2017 at 6:31 AM, Derek H said:

Weird question but hang in there with me... Did you by chance have any G3 RECEIVERS switched off hanging off the side of your bag when you noticed these RF hits?

 

I've found that having a powered-off G3 IEM receiver sitting next to hops transmitters wreaks havoc with my Lectro receivers. Will create spikes all across the block. When you remove the G3 receivers from the bag and get them a few feet away or even just turn them on all the troubles go away. Totally bizarre.

 


Very very very strange, why on earth would powered off devices have any impact whatsoever?!?!

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So after another day of poor performance, I went ahead and emailed Lectro the following....

 

Quote

Hi there, 

 
Long time Lectro user here, have had the pleasure of meeting Karl at various events too!
 
I have owned an SRC and SMDWB in A1 since the beginning of November, purchased at Trew Audio in Los Angeles (wasn't able to get a second transmitter for it, since they're out of stock everywhere!). Sadly, over the several jobs I've used this combo on, I've noticed significantly worse performance than my SRB/SMQV (Block 21). 
 
By comparison to the latter, both running at 100mW, I get worse range and a lot more hits/noise. I've also noticed that any loss of line of sight can result in interference. As well as being close to certain cameras, like the Sony FS7. Again, by comparison, the SRB/SMQV channels will be clear as a bell in all these scenarios (even when there appears to be LESS activity on the SRC's scanned frequency). 
 
Is it possible I have a defective SRC or SMDWB? I would have thought that, with a tracking front end filter, there would be BETTER performance. 
 
The other contents of my sound bag, for reference, 
 
Sound Devices 788t / CL8
SRB
AudioRoot Power Distro
Sennheiser G3 Tx in band B (so 100mhz+ away from the SRC in A1 and these performance issues happen regardless of whether or not the G3 is on)
Using DPA4060 and Slim lavs. 
 
I'd like to go ahead and purchase another windeband transmitter soon (SMWB), but really need to have these performance issues fixed first. Let me know if I should the receiver/transmitter/both in or what the best plan of action is. 
 
 
all the best, James

 

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The problems with SRC seem never ending..ive been waiting to purchase SRC's  in uk but like others i know  ive been put off and holding off by all the reported ongoing problems with SRC in various forums..

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Very very very strange, why on earth would powered off devices have any impact whatsoever?!?!


I have found some devices that go into a bizarre “sleep mode” when powered off. You would think that there would be no power at all, and no emissions, but that doesn’t always seem to be the case. Not sure if the G3 system is one of these (I have never used one), but might be worth talking to Sennheiser ((assuming you can find somebody there these days that actually knows engineering details).

-Scott


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Anyone having a problem with a flickering backlight on their SRc?  My SRc just got back from the shop a month ago and now it's intermittently "flashing" the backlight.  It seems the backlight will dim / shut off randomly then come back on, but then be fine for an hour or so before doing it again.

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14 hours ago, Scott Smith said:

I have found some devices that go into a bizarre “sleep mode” when powered off. You would think that there would be no power at all, and no emissions, but that doesn’t always seem to be the case. Not sure if the G3 system is one of these (I have never used one), but might be worth talking to Sennheiser ((assuming you can find somebody there these days that actually knows engineering details).

 

 

Yes, would be interesting to see if physically removing the batteries (or not) makes a difference.

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On ‎2017‎-‎12‎-‎11 at 11:11 AM, codyman said:

Anyone having a problem with a flickering backlight on their SRc?  My SRc just got back from the shop a month ago and now it's intermittently "flashing" the backlight.  It seems the backlight will dim / shut off randomly then come back on, but then be fine for an hour or so before doing it again.

 

Funny, I got that with my receivers (WMs) and I have to send'em to Lectro so they fix it (for free).

 

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On 12/4/2017 at 1:35 AM, Jaymz said:

Had some bizarre issues with my SRC A1 today. SMDWB was the transmitter. Happened at two different locations (15min drive apart). Crew had no walkies. 

 

I had very poor range, even though the selected frequency had no activity at all. 15ft or more away and I'd get the standard RF hiss/hits. By comparison, I had another talent on a Block 21 SMQV with no issues (on a frequency that WASN'T 100% clear). 

 

I was also getting these very strange sounding buzzing/whining noises that would get louder around dialogue, doesn't sound like regular RF issues. Example attached. 10DDT03_4.wav

 

I changed frequency, to another block in fact, didn't solve either issue. I had to pull the SMDWB and switch to a Block 21 SMQV/SRB combo. 

 

Not sure if the problem is the SRC or the SMDWB, will do more tests tomorrow. 

 

Please forgive my enthusiasm, but YES!!!! THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I AM HEARING OF ANOTHER DEVICE EXPERIENCING MY ISSUE! 

 

Less Relevant Backstory:

Originally bought a batch of B1 SRc, LT, and 21 SMQV, in December of 2017, and had nothing but problems from day 1. I opened the boxes that shipped directly from Lectro while still at the dealer, and the entire batch looked like it had been dropped on a concrete floor, kicked around a bit, then picked up by oily hands and thrown into a crate. The packaging was perfect, so the devices were in this condition when they were placed in the packaging. Have a bunch of photos, but that's the not the point of my post. Long story short, I sent them straight back to Lectro, took the opportunity to lower my block due to the recent FCC vacation mandate, which was announced post-purchase. Got my replacement batch of A1. Seemed in much better physical condition out of the box. Seemed OK for the first day out. Then the problems started. 

 

Issue #1:

The most frequent issue I experience is EXACTLY what happens on the 2nd line of your audio example, @Jaymz: 10DDT03_4.wav. I hear what sounds like a noise gate operating––when someone speaks, a hiss rises and falls with the speech and silence, respectively. The funny thing is, the ambient noise is unaffected. It's only when there's an acoustic "signal" present, that I hear this hiss. As a rule, I roll with SNR off. I'm guessing it's some kind of RF interference.

 

Issue #2:

Compared to my years of experiences with 411a's, my SRc A1 does not receive well. In fact, hands down, I get better performance out of my G3s. I rented my unit to another mixer, and standing next to someone with a 411 getting the same Tx, the 411's signal was clean, and my buddy reported that the SRc was flippin' out (hits and interference). I get frequent interference when letting scans run for minutes at a time, and finding channels in massive holes in the spectrum. Getting hits and RF hiss (def not mic or amp noise) with greater than 8 or 10 ft range. Calculating freqs with FreqFinder and/or Lectro groups. Only choosing blank channels in my scans! The problems are much worse around highways and rivers. This is to be expected, but this is really bad. I intuitively know that this is not correct. A week ago I was getting white noise blasts in both channels by the river. Yes, I know, it's the river. I know there are momentary broadcasts like 2 way comms. But still. Somethin' ain't right with this thing.

 

Issue #3

After a lengthy scan (5-10 cycles), I choose I freq in open waters–not a pixel on the screen when zoomed in. Back on the home screen, I immediately see a little RF meter flicker on that channel. Go back and scan–nothing. Back to home screen–flicker. This is the only issue Lectro addressed when they "repaired" my SRc. (Rant below.)

 

 

Issue #4 (a bit of a rant):

A short version of this–Lectro has not been able to reproduce this issue, and therefore cannot do anything about it. This is a big problem for me, because I can reproduce this seemingly random, intermittent, yet frequent problem, almost any day of the week. I don't always have faith that a tech is listening in the same way that I am. "Passing" factory testing is not passing real world testing. 

 

I hate that I have to post about this, but unfortunately, one of my biggest issues is with the support I've received from Lectro. Honestly, I felt like they did me a big solid swapping out my original purchase (even given the above-mentioned, poor physical condition). After several (probably more than 10) calls to Lectro support, I finally bit the bullet and sent in my SRc, assuming that was the culprit, since I was having the same issues on both channels (always using SMQV as ch 1). Through all the phone calls, no one had ever heard of this issue (Issue #1 above–something I had very occasionally experienced with 411s in the past). Fine. After enough explaining, and maybe just wearing out the poor tech who had to deal with me, I would get varied technical answers as to what could be causing the problem. They ranged from a bad RF board, to a bad audio board, to a bad [whatever the device is that tells the RF board how much juice it's getting], to my gain-staging. I called so many times because I was adamant about speaking with someone who had actually experienced this before and knew a direct path to fixing it. Finally, I got someone who put me on hold to go speak to "the SRc tech," and when he returned, he said the tech said the note about Issue #3 above rang a bell and he knew exactly what it was. Not exactly but I was looking for, but close enough, so I sent the unit in. They adjusted something related to the RF meter, and sent it back 6 weeks later. The whole time, I was renting to make up for the temporary loss. Upon receiving the unit back from "repair," I took the unit out of the box and immediately heard Issue #1. Since getting the unit back, I'm almost positive the problem is worse. I deeply regret this purchase.

 

Now, I'm about to send the entire system to Lectro so they can take another look. The while, I'll be spending more money renting supplements. At this point, it would be more cost effective to sell this thing, but I can't in good conscience put this problem on someone else. I'm kinda screwed out of a large chunk of change right now. Especially since I don't really know if it's the Rx or both of my Tx's.

 

 

Questions/Thoughts:

  • I suppose it's possible that both of my transmitters, a B21 SMQV and an LT have issues? They were both purchased brand new with the SRc and shipped from Lectro to my dealer at the time of the order, as my dealer does not keep these in stock. Both times I purchased.
  • ***Maybe it's the wiring of my Cos-11d's? Maybe the "simple" wiring lessens their RFI rejection, somehow? Details below.

 

Details/Gear:

  • SD 664
  • SRc A1, SMQV b19, LT 
  • ***Sanken Cos-11d's with "simple wiring," wired by the dealer as per http://www.lectrosonics.com/Support/images/WiringDiagrams/Wiring_diagrams11fig-2017.jpg i.e. no resistors*** this stands out to me as most mixers I know do not use this wiring. Could this somehow affect RF rejection of the mic? I know Sankens are supposed to be especially good at this. Something else to note is that Tx gain with this wiring is MUCH lower than with the common resistor wiring. But why would an Rx need gain to get a strong signal? Especial
  • 1x G3 (EW100) A band hops Tx to 2x G3 IEM (EW300) (At least Issue #1 persists even without any of this on, or connected. I suppose a G3 unit, be it an EW100 Rx or a tx, loaded with batts, is near me sometimes? Referring to the funny powered-off G3 issue mentioned earlier in this forum).
  • Power - HiQ (Inspired Engergy) batts to Remote Audio BDS v4 to everything in the bag. G3 Hops Tx powered by batts.
  • G3 A band, B band systems - rarely in use. Problems persist regardless.
  • -----
  • Cameras I'm frequently shooting with: FS7, C100, Epic, Alexa, Alexa Mini

Please let me know if I left anything out!

 

 

 

To the quote below: Unfortunately, I am still getting the same treatment... "Performing as intended," given after a long, LONG talk about gain-staging with 2 Lectro techs, in which I was given simply incorrect information: set my 664's line gain to "0" or 12 o'clock, and turn down the Rx out to 0db? But that's not a 1 to 1 ratio of output to input dynamic range... just scream into the mic at that setting and you'll see max peaks at about -12 dbFS on the recorder. Aside from the point, but presents another: maybe not everyone in that building really knows what they're doing... Sad because that's why I buy from a smaller, well-respected tech company–to ensure that I always speak with someone who knows a lot more than I do about their own equipment. All of this is to say that I'm no longer confident that all of Lectro's techs could even identify such a problem. Most people don't hear the problems. But my ears do, and my wallet is saying, "WTF?!"

 

I just want Lectro to make this right so I can love them and their gear again...

 

Thanks for reading!

On 10/6/2017 at 8:21 PM, JDirckze said:


Nice that Lectro are finally admitting there are issues, when I was having issues with mine they seemed to insinuate that I was using the gear incorrectly or that their gear was performing as intended. I returned mine for a SRB some time ago.


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On 1/17/2018 at 10:30 AM, It's All Waves said:
  • I suppose it's possible that both of my transmitters, a B21 SMQV and an LT have issues? They were both purchased brand new with the SRc and shipped from Lectro to my dealer at the time of the order, as my dealer does not keep these in stock. Both times I purchased.


Have you tried borrowing other people's transmitters? That should quickly show up if it is an issue with the transmitter, or a bigger problem with the receiver itself. 

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I sent my SRc-B1 back to Lectrosonics late Nov 2017. Here's the latest update from Lectro (last week):

 

"I didn’t see the post (*referring to this JW thread*), but it is at least partially right.  We were applying a component update to correct the range issues with SRC, however during that time, our engineering dept was working to have a new pcb made which would implement the update as well as other improvements they wanted to incorporate to better its performance. The boards are close to being ready, but it could be awhile before we have boards available for the units I currently have in-house to receive the update. I’m sorry I can’t be more specific, but I don’t have a firm ETA from engineering yet.  I know they are still in the testing process. If you’d like, I can return your receiver, or we can continue to hang on to it to wait for the new pcb."

I'm happy to leave it there until it's figured out.

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Sounds a lot like the SRc is still in beta testing.. 

 

Block changing my 600meg 411s is starting to sound like a better idea. 

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I sent my SRc-B1 back to Lectrosonics late Nov 2017. Here's the latest update from Lectro (last week):
 
"I didn’t see the post (*referring to this JW thread*), but it is at least partially right.  We were applying a component update to correct the range issues with SRC, however during that time, our engineering dept was working to have a new pcb made which would implement the update as well as other improvements they wanted to incorporate to better its performance. The boards are close to being ready, but it could be awhile before we have boards available for the units I currently have in-house to receive the update. I’m sorry I can’t be more specific, but I don’t have a firm ETA from engineering yet.  I know they are still in the testing process. If you’d like, I can return your receiver, or we can continue to hang on to it to wait for the new pcb."

I'm happy to leave it there until it's figured out.
That's so weird. I thought past a certain serial number, the SRCs were certified to be good.

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14 hours ago, JimKeaney said:

I sent my SRc-B1 back to Lectrosonics late Nov 2017. Here's the latest update from Lectro (last week):

 

"I didn’t see the post (*referring to this JW thread*), but it is at least partially right.  We were applying a component update to correct the range issues with SRC, however during that time, our engineering dept was working to have a new pcb made which would implement the update as well as other improvements they wanted to incorporate to better its performance. The boards are close to being ready, but it could be awhile before we have boards available for the units I currently have in-house to receive the update. I’m sorry I can’t be more specific, but I don’t have a firm ETA from engineering yet.  I know they are still in the testing process. If you’d like, I can return your receiver, or we can continue to hang on to it to wait for the new pcb."

I'm happy to leave it there until it's figured out.

This sounds like a recall will happen on SRC for a board change at somepoint...

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I got my SRc back from the mothership a couple weeks ago (its second trip there).  Seems to be working fine for me now...

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On 1/20/2018 at 11:23 AM, codyman said:

I got my SRc back from the mothership a couple weeks ago (its second trip there).  Seems to be working fine for me now...


Do you know if your unit received the new PCB?

 

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1 hour ago, JimKeaney said:


Do you know if your unit received the new PCB?

 

I don't believe it did.  I was mostly having screen and back light issues so that part of the unit was replaced.

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Just got off the phone with Lectro for the Nth time... Same old story -- could not reproduce the issue in the lab. I brought up the emails referenced in this forum that mention hardware changes, and for the first time, this was confirmed verbally as reality. I believe he said the SRc A was getting a revision based on the PCB of Src B. (I have the whole thing recorded and am debating posting it. It's pretty gnarly and revealing...) Every other time I've called, they didn't know anything about any hardware changes to the SRc line. The rep said this lack of internal communication has been a problem for some time now. Side note: I have spoken with this rep in the past, and he has always been very knowledgable, patient, helpful, and honest. They should really promote that guy.

 

Also, there is a pending FIRMWARE update for the SRc A. The problem with the firmware has to do with the overlap between B470 and 19, and a fairly large oversight in the programming of the unit. The scanner scans blocks in sequence, from low to high, so 470-->19-->20. What's funny, is that the scanner resets to the beginning of B19 after reaching the end of 470 (re-scanning the overlap), but the screen does not. So all of our scans above 470-ish have been VISUALLY OFFSET BY ABOUT 9 MHz! ~HOLY SHIT.~ Boy does that explain a whole lot of the problems I've been getting. And still, the report from the tech who serviced my unit Sunday (2 days ago) said "could not reproduce issue." In other words, the tech still doesn't know about this firmware problem. I'm so beyond upset and regretting my $6,500 purchase. Lectro needs to start a loner program until they get this right, or straight up refund every poor soul who had to deal with this issue for well over a year! For I fear they are moving towards a legal battle. Still selling known faulty units? Hmm... Still advertising the SRc as being effectively the same to the 411a in RF performance? This is all very out of character for the Lectrosonics I came up with. Losing confidence fast.

 

There's a lot of good information in the recording of this phone call, about SRc's, internal company problems, and [FINALLY] a valid explanation of why Lectro's always said to set your gain so damn hot, from an engineering perspective–something I've been searching for for ages! If anyone would like a copy, I'd be happy to share it with you, as long as everyone agrees to keep it private unless Lectro never attempts retroactive "fixes," like refunds, loners, etc...

 

I hope this clears a few things up for some folks. 

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Well, 

Larry F, Gordon M and Karl W have all participated in this thread.

This has also been openly discussed on the Facebook group.

 

I understand from postings on the Facebook group that there has recently been a breakthrough in finding the cause of these issues. 

 

Your claims of internal communication problems are not in line with my experience with Lectrosonics at all. They are not a huge company like Sony or Sennheiser. They have been very responsive any time I have been in contact with them. They also participate here and on the Facebook group regularly.

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From the Facebook site: https://www.facebook.com/groups/69511015699/permalink/10155840314545700/

 

 

10422130_10205233255422277_8229208668281
Gordon Moore to Lectrosonics

"Doug Pearson for the win! Doug recently posted pictures showing a discrepancy in the scans between a block 19 SRB and an SRC -A1. After several days of trying to duplicate the problem we finally found it (and are kicking ourselves for not catching this sooner). This answers the problems you ALL have been having with getting interference on "good frequencies" as shown on the scan of the SRC-A1.

 

There is a bug in the firmware that runs the scan. It was improperly indexing the channel selection in the scan and the hexadecimal value for the frequency was off by 9.2MHz! That's why Dougs pictures showed clear at EE on his SRB and messy EE on his SRC. The SRC receiver was working fine, the scan firmware was not. This also skews the values in the SmartScan by 9.2MHz. (not so smart, huh!)

 

So, while we will continue with beta testing the SRC new rev boards for their improvements - there ARE improvements there - we have FINALLY found the smoking gun for the majority of weirdnesses the SRC-A1 has shown.

 

This will require a firmware update for ALL SRC-A1's . We are investigating the B1 and C1 as well to make sure there isn't a similar offset problem.

It will take some time (not too long we hope) to program the bug out and get it tested to make sure we don't break something else with the firmware.

Stay tuned - we will post the new firmware on the website as soon as it is fixed, tested and released.

 

In the meantime, next time you see Doug, buy him a drink. His post helped us zero in on this bug (which has been plaguing the A-1 from the beginning). Thank you Doug, and all of you for the constant feedback/nagging/patience."

 

 

I never use the SRc scan function because I use a frequency analyzer for scanning, but it is interesting to learn about this discovery and planned fix. 

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38 minutes ago, alenK said:

I never use the SRc scan function because I use a frequency analyzer for scanning, but it is interesting to learn about this discovery and planned fix. 


So would people who always enter in their own frequencies (rather than using the built in scanner) then never experience these troubles others have been experiencing with the SRc?

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