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lav compatibility?


nch

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I’m looking at buying my first set of lavalier wireless microphones. After some research and reading and posting on forum it seems to me the best way to go is to buy some basic wireless transmitters and receivers, Sony, Sennheiser G3 or maybe the new Saramonics then upgrade the lavs to a set of OST TL-40s.

I’m confused about compatibility though and how to read the specs. I’m thinking the connectors can always be adapted or rewired but the power and information on the lavs has me stumped.

Do lavaliers require phantom power, or plug and play power I think it’s called when it’s a smaller amount. The OST TL-40 is listed as 1.2 V Nominal Supply Voltage. The Sennheiser MKE 2s that come with the G3 set are listed as 7.5V Operating voltage (stand alone). I’m not sure I’m reading these spec right really. The OST lavs have a strange unit called a power supply that is hardwired into some lavs with an XLR plugs, but in the description it says the power supply does not take batteries and requires power?

I’ve done my best to research this on line but there’s not much out there so I thought I’d come here and ask. Can anyone help explain how to understand what units will work with what lavs?

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Hi,

I have G3's and Lectrosonics wireless, and I have Countryman B6's and Sanken COS-11's and the same lavs work with either set.  The plugs are different, but I have adapters that make them work with both.  One of the things you have to be careful with is frequency ranges.  Not sure what is legal in London or the UK, but make sure you know so you by wireless kits that fall into the legal range.

Phil

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Hi nch,

Yes, lavalier mics are miniature condenser mics so they require external power to operate. The voltage range is typically low, such as the 1.2V on the OST TL-40. With the TL-40 you have the option of getting an XLR 48 volt phantom power supply module hardwired to the mic. If you do, then you won't be able to use the mic with your wireless transmitters, as those generally speaking don't supply 48V phantom power. The application for this setup is when you want to run the miniature mic directly to your mixer, when a wireless hop isn't required.

If you want to know if the TL-40 plays nice with your G3, you could just contact the mic manufacturer directly. In this business companies will generally be very happy to answer your questions. Something like "Hello, I'm interested in purchasing your OST TL-40 to use with Sennheiser G3 transmitters. The G3 transmitter SK100 lists the nominal voltage as 2.4V, do you think the OST TL-40 would play nice with it? Best regards, ..." and you'll probably get a nice reply back.

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 Thanks for the replies. All these transmitters are good in the UK but it’s certainly something to keep an eye on. Good to hear that the G3’s are working with everything.

 I could e-mail all the relevant companies and ask if this or that lav will work with their transmitters or search on line for people using them together but it’s a rather difficult and time consuming way of looking at equipment. All the stuff I buy tends to be second hand as well.

I was hoping there would be a way of reading the specs on their kit so as to know at a glance and was thinking that someone here might know how.

For example the Sennheiser MKE 2s that comes with the G3 set are listed as 7.5V operating voltage (stand alone) but the transmitter you say is listed as 2.4V, I can’t even find the transmitter information only this: Input voltage range Mic/Line: 1,8V/3,0V (SK100G2), Mic: 1,2V (SKP100G2) .

Maybe there really isn’t a way to understand what will work with what by reading the specifications of the items and calling the company's or asking about is what people have to do when they are looking at different microphones. I’ll send some e-mails today and see how I do I guess.

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The omni lav mic that comes w/ the Sennheiser 100 SK100 bodypack transmitter is a ME-2, (not to be confused with the much better MKE-2) The ME2 does not sound very good, but is 'usable'.. as a spare.  The Oscar SoundTech mics are highly regarded by many and OST's customer support is very good. I would recommend the (Tram-like) 801 or 802. The 801 has highest presence peak for use underneath clothing. The TL40 has the flattest response and a lower max SPL than the 80x series. Many of us here have a few of each. OST's Phantom Power supply/ XLR adapter is an additional $100 (approx) but allows the mic to used with either a bodypack transmitter or in a hardwired config.

The G2/3 SK100 bodypack transmitter has enough bias voltage (aka, "Plug-in Power") for a MKE-2 and every other lav mic I've encountered.

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 Thanks for the replies. All these transmitters are good in the UK but it’s certainly something to keep an eye on. Good to hear that the G3’s are working with everything.

 I could e-mail all the relevant companies and ask if this or that lav will work with their transmitters or search on line for people using them together but it’s a rather difficult and time consuming way of looking at equipment. All the stuff I buy tends to be second hand as well.

I was hoping there would be a way of reading the specs on their kit so as to know at a glance and was thinking that someone here might know how.

For example the Sennheiser MKE 2s that comes with the G3 set are listed as 7.5V operating voltage (stand alone) but the transmitter you say is listed as 2.4V, I can’t even find the transmitter information only this: Input voltage range Mic/Line: 1,8V/3,0V (SK100G2), Mic: 1,2V (SKP100G2) .

Maybe there really isn’t a way to understand what will work with what by reading the specifications of the items and calling the company's or asking about is what people have to do when they are looking at different microphones. I’ll send some e-mails today and see how I do I guess.


The transmitter has an output voltage of something like 4.3V. Which is a bit odd, but should be fine for most mics.
The SKP100 is a different device, not sure why you mention it, but it's not made for lav mics and it will not power one.
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Thanks Rick, the Sennheiser dose seem to work with everything and your right I've gotten my mic's mixed up for the specs. I've mailed Sony and Saramonics to see what they say. Sony and Saramonics list nothing it their specs about "bias voltage" or power of any kind apart from battery requirements, I'd like to see what they are as the units look like there more durable.

I’m not sure. That was what was listed under the technical specifications for the Sennheiser EW 100-ENG G3 wireless kit. “Input voltage range Mic/Line: 1,8V/3,0V (SK100G2), Mic: 1,2V (SKP100G2)”

I can find nothing listed as “output voltage” is this what I’m looking for?

where did you get the 4.3V from?

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I can find nothing listed as “output voltage” is this what I’m looking for? where did you get the 4.3V from?

Output voltage is the bias voltage or a kind of phantom power, which the tx outputs to supply the mic with its operating voltage. The input voltage is the voltage going into the tx.

The 4.3V is what I measured on my tx.

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If I were looking to buy wireless sets with low budget, I would look at Sennhesier G3, as most have written before, and maybe the Rodelink set which I think is similarly priced but has digital transmission and comes with a Rode lav which should be at least as good as an ME2. OST lavs are indeed a good choice for their price, and they will work with both these wireless systems (and probably all others as well).

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Sennheiser got back with 5-15V which is quite a broad range. I did look at the Rode as advised by someone on Redit but they looked large and heavy and a disagreement broke out as to whether they were any good, whether Rode were any good in general I think. Another claimed that the technology was simply not up to the job sound quality wise, another that they were to bulky. I'm a beginner and have never used Rode kit so I stayed out of it.

Most have advise Sennheiser. A few Sony as being better built in the same price range and one chap said Saramonics, as a new one on the scene, from China was worth a closer look. But 3.2V seem awful low compared to the Sennheiser.

I mailed OST and am waiting to find out what their different lavs use power wise.

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Trying to buy lavs via bias voltage specs and spec sheets, without any understanding of lavs, or bias voltage, is silliness.  Save yourself the anguish of wandering blindly in the oft misleading world of published specs and instead, specify your intended use, ask for recommendations for that use, then choose the most recommended model.

And, no, electret condenser bias voltage is not the same thing as phantom power which is a voltage applied equally to both legs of a balanced circuit, therefore maintaining equal potential to ground on each leg.

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And, no, electret condenser bias voltage is not the same thing as phantom power which is a voltage applied equally to both legs of a balanced circuit, therefore maintaining equal potential to ground on each leg.

Which is why I said "kind of". I thought it might help to explain the difference between input and output voltage.
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15 minutes ago, Constantin said:


Which is why I said "kind of". I thought it might help to explain the difference between input and output voltage.

I knew that, but those terms are so misunderstood already that I don't encourage muddying the waters of techo-knowledge further.  The dumbing-down of our profession is already too rampant.

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after doing research and asking a lot of advice on forums. The most recommended models in my budget are the three different sets of transmitters and receivers I described in my first post and the OST lavs. But when I asked what would work with what people seemed not so sure.

So what I'm asking is how to know what lavs will work with what transmitters. I could go through them asking if anyone has used them together and if they work and I appreciate how helpful people are but I thought it might be better to try an understand how to find out myself.

I thought to try and understand the power requirements of the mics and what transmitters could support then, It's the only way I could think of going about it?

You think within the industry the terminology is vague and the specifications inaccurate or is there more to bias voltage than simply knowing the transmitter's output and the microphone's requirements?

 

 

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Yes.  While not necessarily vague, there's more to it than that.  For instance, are they quoting the max bias voltage they'll handle or the minimum they require?  If they're talking nominal voltage, that sometimes means different things to different people.

As most lavs will work with most transmitters, your best way to know how something will perform is to try it.  Learning how to listen is MUCH more important in our profession than are specs -- made many times more true if those specs aren't understood, or aren't properly correlated with other information.

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I understand. I certainly was not trying to judge or speculate on the quality of the audio from these numbers, only trying to understand what would work with what. Someone complained in another thread about one of his lavs not working with one of his transmitters. I asked if all lavs were compatible with all transmitters and was told no, they all have different power requirements.

 

OST got back to me with this reply "OST-801 and 802, supply voltage is 1.3V to around 18V and 2-10V for the TL-40. All of the mics work very well with the G3.”

Sennheiser say “Our G3 bodypacks provide 5-15V electret powering”.

And Saramonic said ”3.2V-“ which leaves me guessing a bit.

 

I'm starting to feel that maybe this is the wrong question though, what with none of the relevant numbers published and everyone looking at me a bit odd. This dose feel like it’s becoming a wild goose chase.

I'll take the earlier advice for now and write to a manufacturer or ask about here with a specific compatibility question, should one arise, it looks anyway like the Sennheiser is the obvious choice for now, which seems to work with everything mentioned so far, the G3’s paired with the OST’s. I was going to buy the TL-40’s but it’s for use mostly under wardrobe or between little bits of that moleskin and a few people have mentioned that the 801/802’s would be better. I can only afford one set for now, which would be the most versatile?

And I shall take some time and read up a bit on how exactly these microphones work. Thanks for everyone’s patience and advice.

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I was going to buy the TL-40’s but it’s for use mostly under wardrobe or between little bits of that moleskin and a few people have mentioned that the 801/802’s would be better. I can only afford one set for now, which would be the most versatile?


You'll have to figure out what your needs are and buy your mic accordingly.
My personal opinion is that it is easier to cut something than it is to add something that isn't really there
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