Jump to content
ProSound

Film Timecode workflow

Recommended Posts

Hello Brain Trust, 

I am starting a project next week which will be shot on 35mm film. Production has left it to me and the film lab handling the telecine to figure out the workflow as they have not hired an editor or post production supervisor yet despite my urging to do so. Also due to shooting starting Tuesday we will not be having a sync test or workflow test despite the lab and myself wanting one below is what the lab is suggesting let me know your thoughts. 

You will be shooting film at 24FPS, your options for dailies would be 23.976 or 24 FPS depending on the framerate you are planing for editorial.  If you decide on 23.976, your Audio will need to recorded at 48048 KHZ with 24 frame timecode and will get pulled down to 48000 KHZ when we sync with film.  If you decide editorial will be at 24 then your audio should be recorded 48000 KHZ with 24 frame timecode.   Avid is best at tracking keycode which is needed when going back to the film for your final scan for finishing.

The last film shoot I did which was a commercial 5 or 6 years ago I recorded 30NDF and 48000KHZ, 

Any input from the group is appreciated. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure how helpful this will be but from an audio post perspective, running at 24 frames is no big deal. It's definitely less common these days than 23.98 but any edit house/mix stage will be able to deal with it no problem. If doing post at 24 frames simplifies your workflow now (which it sounds like it does), then I can't see a reason why that would be an issue down the line. 

-Mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like you and the lab can decide what the editors will have to work with.

Once it's all int the computer, it's no big deal what framerate you choose, and here in Europe "straight" 24 or 25 fps is the usual workflow. To us, the choice would be obvious since it doesn't involve any speed changes.

What's the end product supposed to run at? 24 or 23.98?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, pkautzsch said:

What's the end product supposed to run at? 24 or 23.98?

They aren't sure. I was "told" we had a complete deliverables documents but when I finally got the document this morning it was all about data back up and archiving nothing about what we are shooting at 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If it's a feature, run sound at 24. 

Don't mess around with 48048 or 23.98 or any of that. Those are exceptions, and to be decided by post supervisor, not you or the transfer house. 

In terms of the timeline, again, that's something neither you telecine should be deciding. 

I find it extraordinary that something shot on film wouldn't have post in place already. Perhaps ask producer to consult his/her last editor and ask for their opinion. 

In short, run 24/48 and wash your hands of any other decision. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep. Any whole-integer timecode will work fine with 24.00fps film: 30fps or 24fps. The problem with 30 is always that there's the possibility of a "half frame-number" displayed on the slate TC readout. 

In America, they almost always cut at 23.976, but they basically do all that during the telecine scan, and just take the sound timecode and apply a .1% pulldown. 

Be sure the camera crew does not shoot 23.98 and stays at 24.00fps all the way through. I have seen some wild trainwrecks when people overthink this problem. It never hurts to indicate on the slate what the camera frame rate is. 

One great thing about film shoots: everybody is keenly aware that the moment they're rolling, dollars are going through the gate. Even on big-budget productions, it seems like there's more "respect for the frame" when film is rolling, and consequently a lot less screwing around.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Marc Wielage said:

One great thing about film shoots: everybody is keenly aware that the moment they're rolling, dollars are going through the gate. Even on big-budget productions, it seems like there's more "respect for the frame" when film is rolling, and consequently a lot less screwing around.

That is my hope they are only planning on shooting about 5000 feet a day and we are single camera. I am hoping this will contribute to a great final product. 

They agreed this afternoon to follow the recommendations of myself and the lab. They are going to edit at 24 with audio being at 24/48. 

16 hours ago, Marc Wielage said:

 The problem with 30 is always that there's the possibility of a "half frame-number" displayed on the slate TC readout. 

Yes this is the reason the Lab did not want a 30 workflow and I agreed. 

I appreciate all the input 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/19/2016 at 2:35 PM, ProSound said:

That is my hope they are only planning on shooting about 5000 feet a day and we are single camera. I am hoping this will contribute to a great final product. 

5000 feet is not much -- that's less than an hour of material per day! I would say two hours is more typical, at least on an average low-budget film. There are always exceptions: I've seen TV shows that did A&B camera and shot 5-6 hours of material per day. And yet on Rob Reiner's Bucket List, they actually did shoot only about 5000 feet per day, because of the shorter schedule demanded by Jack Nicholson. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Marc Wielage said:

5000 feet is not much -- that's less than an hour of material per day!

Yes I am aware! All of us are concerned that is all that is budgeted for. So we will see. I did EPK on the new "Gifted" movie which was shot on film. They were regularly shooting 25,000-30,000 feet per day with  two cameras. Originally we expected to be rolling 10,000 feet a day 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×