tomsalyer

SD 633 WAV File Shorter Than Expected ... Recovery?

49 posts in this topic

Sound Devices SD 633 WAV file shorter than expected. At end of take looked down at screen, recorder rolling and told producer interview was 18 minutes long. But the file on both the CF and SD card is only 6'48". SD tech only suggestion was that my Transcend SD 90mbs 32 GB card, which was on approved list in April 2014 when bought 633, may be glitchie and at end of life. They no longer recommend any Transcend cards he says. CF card approved Sandisk 120 mbs 32 gb. Latest OS 4.01. Any one experience this? What recovery software suggest to search on card to see if somehow file was split up and recorded somewhere? Am I toast with this client 1f641.png

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Better look down at the screen more often...  You may of tapped the recording STOPPED... it happens...  Was the take from the head... or somewhere else...  If it's from the head, you may have accidentally hit the button stopping the recording without realizing it at the end point.....  

   Check all files, it may have split due to file splitting setting on machine being less than 2 GB or 4GB per file..  I leave my machine on the larger setting... 4GB just in case... I never worry about it... Yours may have been on 512mb -640mb -1GB -2GB or 4GB...

check that out.... and yes, probably toast on that client... unless you can dig it up... but, not the best feeling for the producer...

Shit happens... we're all human... 

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I distinctly remember looking at the screen, the recorder was recording with red bars on top and recording time elapsed rolling, and telling the producer we had 18 minutes. I have the file size set to 4 GB. The recording was from the beginning of the interview. I've run Disk Drill on both cards, and other than recovering old jobs, no other files recovered. Thanks.

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Must of been a faulty card then....  I personally have never used anything but the Sandisk cards.... ever... and... so far... never a problem...  

Key phrase....  so far...

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Hello, Was there a second card? I am a Zaxcom guy, but doesn't the 633 have at least 2 cards? 

Sincerely, Martin 

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Yes my 633 had both a SD and CF card installed, and the "to short" file in question was identical on both. I ran Disk Drill software and only recovered old jobs, not any "missing" part of the file. I distinctly recall the recorder rolling at 18 minutes and the producer recalls me telling him the time. I'm certainly not infallible, I've made mistakes before, but in this case I think I had a file writing problem. As Sound Devices tech says they no longer recommend Transcend cards, I've ordered San Disk SD cards on their approved list. Final call, no definitive answer.

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If it was a card glitch it seems pretty strange to me that both cards would mess up at the exact same time in the exact same way. IMHO I'd be doing some more testing to make sure there isn't another underlying issue somewhere. 

-Mike

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I would also rule out a card issue, since both the CF and SD cards have the same 'short' file.

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5 hours ago, tomsalyer said:

Yes my 633 had both a SD and CF card installed, and the "to short" file in question was identical on both. I ran Disk Drill software and only recovered old jobs, not any "missing" part of the file. I distinctly recall the recorder rolling at 18 minutes and the producer recalls me telling him the time. I'm certainly not infallible, I've made mistakes before, but in this case I think I had a file writing problem. As Sound Devices tech says they no longer recommend Transcend cards, I've ordered San Disk SD cards on their approved list. Final call, no definitive answer.

 

1 hour ago, Mobilemike said:

If it was a card glitch it seems pretty strange to me that both cards would mess up at the exact same time in the exact same way. IMHO I'd be doing some more testing to make sure there isn't another underlying issue somewhere. 

-Mike

Hello, I'm sure I will get chastised by someone for this. But that's ok. I am in America. Chastise away. I used to use Sound Devices. I now use Zaxcom. The problem he has experienced is one of the reasons why.  A couple of years ago, I had a friend (a mixer that many of you would know) who had just purchased a new 664. He experienced this same problem, that is a problem with a Sound Devices failing to write to either card. Shortly after this, he had a friend that experienced that same problem on a 633. My friend with the 664 informed me of a conversation he had with SD. I had a hard time believing what he said SD had told him. I asked permission to call and use his name, in order to discuss this alledged opinion from Sound Devices. I call SD and asked about why the second card didn't record also, if indeed this was simply a bad media card. I was informed that the one bad card told the other card to go bad also. So I commented that this is not much of a backup system and I was informed that the second card is NOT a backup. So, I replied that if indeed, one card could tell the other card to "go bad", in that case if you had 50 slots for data cards, you would greatly increase your odds of failure, because then one card could tell 49 other cards to "go bad". Now, do I believe what I was told? Of course not. What I am sure is happening is that one pipe feeds both cards, and if that pipe fails, you have total failure. The analogy I use is the old days, where a car that had dual exhausts all the way from the manifold to the tailpipe, you would still have some exhaust pressure coming out one pipe, if the other side were to be clogged. That is Zaxcom. If your car had 2 exhaust manifolds going good into one muffler, and then going to 2 tailpipes, if your muffler was clogged, neither tailpipe would have exhaust. That is Sound Devices.  

Sincerely, Martin 

 

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Well, Martin, I'm not going to chastise you, but I wouldn't anyone to think that the failure that Tom has reported here is a regular occurrence with Sound Devices recorders. There have been, of course, similar sorts of failures at one time or another with just about every recording device in use these days. As everyone knows, I am totally Zaxcom in my work and have only had limited experience with other recorders. I will say that I have a special appreciation for the way Zaxcom handles multiple media and the proprietary MARF system --- I firmly believe that it is these functions of Zaxcom recorders that have been responsible for me having never had a bad recording to the primary media. Sure, I have had problems with bad media on my mirror media, my deliverable, but never on the primary media MARF recording.

Tom's incident is pretty tragic, I would not wish this on anyone no matter what recorder they are using. For me, I will stick with what has been the most reliable recording method I have ever used for the last 18 years of my 46 year career.

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1 hour ago, Jeff Wexler said:

Well, Martin, I'm not going to chastise you, but I wouldn't anyone to think that the failure that Tom has reported here is a regular occurrence with Sound Devices recorders. There have been, of course, similar sorts of failures at one time or another with just about every recording device in use these days. As everyone knows, I am totally Zaxcom in my work and have only had limited experience with other recorders. I will say that I have a special appreciation for the way Zaxcom handles multiple media and the proprietary MARF system --- I firmly believe that it is these functions of Zaxcom recorders that have been responsible for me having never had a bad recording to the primary media. Sure, I have had problems with bad media on my mirror media, my deliverable, but never on the primary media MARF recording.

Tom's incident is pretty tragic, I would not wish this on anyone no matter what recorder they are using. For me, I will stick with what has been the most reliable recording method I have ever used for the last 18 years of my 46 year career.

Jeff, and everyone else reading this. I have had one glitch ever on a Zaxcom recording, but, I knew it when it happened and had I updated the firmware earlier, that would not have happened. The  difference here is that I knew right as it happened, there was no "surprise later". It was about a 30 second take, and had the take been a good one, I would have downloaded the transmitter cards that night, and just handed it over later. I was never so happy for a bad take. I just feel like mixers have been lead to believe that the second card in 633 and 664 are "backups", and apparently they are not. The chances of having an identical starting and ending failure time on 2 cards is astronomically high. The machine failed him, not the 2 cards at the same time.

Sincerely, Martin 

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MobileMike had a good point... if on both cards, unlikely it's the cards,,

Shit happens.... I'll stick with my SD gear any day...   any show,  with my reputation hanging in the balance..

I have confidence that if there is an issue, or if they need to deal with it at SD, they will... great people and great products...  These are not Airplanes, they're recording decks...  This is the nature of any complicated piece of equipment...

Agree though the audio should take a separate path to the second card... makes sense... maybe a software update, maybe not...

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 Interesting. I've used and been happy w both the SD & Zax recorders. I had a weird lock up once on my Deva and lost the take. A few months ago I had a bad take that started and quit almost immediately on my 688 on the SD card but was all there on the CF card. Didn't really matter because we shot 30+ takes every set up. I just assumed that it was the SD card was F'd up somehow. Changed it out. So far that was the only hic up on my 688. If it can, it will screw up someday in someway.

CrewC

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Perhaps someone from sound devices could clarify what exactly is supposed to happen when one card fails.  I thought the other should keep going independent of the other. 

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It's perfectly possible that a corrupt CF (or SD) card could bother the OS enough so that it will create an error. Doesn't matter in such a case how the data gets to the cards when it's already been damaged at the source.
On the 788 I have had cards go bad sometimes, but the machine kept recording on the other media anyway. I'd be surprised if SD somehow changed this for the 6 series.
I don't think the OP gets a lot of solace from reading that using a different brand would probably not have caused this problem - although going through this forum alone, it becomes abundantly clear that Zaxcom isn't fault free, either, so I don't think this whole strand of this thread is very helpful

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29 minutes ago, Constantin said:

It's perfectly possible that a corrupt CF (or SD) card could bother the OS enough so that it will create an error. Doesn't matter in such a case how the data gets to the cards when it's already been damaged at the source.
On the 788 I have had cards go bad sometimes, but the machine kept recording on the other media anyway. I'd be surprised if SD somehow changed this for the 6 series.
I don't think the OP gets a lot of solace from reading that using a different brand would probably not have caused this problem - although going through this forum alone, it becomes abundantly clear that Zaxcom isn't fault free, either, so I don't think this whole strand of this thread is very helpful

Hello, But in the case of the Zaxcom, you know right then, right now. That's a big difference between that and being surprised later. That's like a scripty saying the next day "I can see the camera in that mirror" vs. saying it right now. Not that it should take the scripty to see the camera in the mirror but you  what I'm saying. And as far as things being different recording to the hard drive of a 788 vs the compact flash on a 633, the failure is before that, so that doesn't matter. 

Sincerely, Martin 

51 minutes ago, Glen Deakin said:

Perhaps someone from sound devices could clarify what exactly is supposed to happen when one card fails.  I thought the other should keep going independent of the other. 

Glen, I think they made it real clear to me. 

Sincerely, Martin 

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40 minutes ago, MartinTheMixer said:

Hello, But in the case of the Zaxcom, you know right then, right now.

Yes of course it's better if you can see the error, but that may not always be the case. So far I have always been informed of errors in my recorders, too, but that can change. That's kind of the thing with errors: they happen unexpectedly

 

43 minutes ago, MartinTheMixer said:

And as far as things being different recording to the hard drive of a 788 vs the compact flash on a 633, the failure is before that, so that doesn't matter. 

The failure is before what? On the 788T I am recording to CF cards, too. 

46 minutes ago, MartinTheMixer said:

That's like a scripty saying the next day "I can see the camera in that mirror" vs. saying it right now. Not that it should take the scripty to see the camera in the mirror but you  what I'm saying. 

To be honest, I find it much easier to relate to a sound guy's recording issues than to a scripty's belated confession. Especially considering that the OP's specific issue is so much worse than scripty's issue

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Just now, Constantin said:

 

Yes of course it's better if you can see the error, but that may not always be the case. So far I have always been informed of errors in my recorders, too, but that can change. That's kind of the thing with errors: they happen unexpectedly

 

The failure is before what? On the 788T I am recording to CF cards, too. 

To be honest, I find it much easier to relate to a sound guy's recording issues than to a scripty's belated confession. Especially considering that the OP's specific issue is so much worse than scripty's issue

Hello, The failure is BEFORE the CF cards, and in his case infinitely before the hard drive, because there is no hard drive in his case.

Sincerely, Martin 

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Hello, The failure is BEFORE the CF cards, and in his case infinitely before the hard drive, because there is no hard drive in his case.
Sincerely, Martin 

And no-one is talking about a hard drive except you. Why?
How do you know where the failure is?

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2 minutes ago, Constantin said:


And no-one is talking about a hard drive except you. Why?
How do you know where the failure is?
 

Constantin, You forgot what you wrote about 5 posts ago.

Sincerely, Martin 

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I'd be curious to hear what someone from Sound Devices says about what MartintheMixer posted. After all it's all speculation until we hear from them. 

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Constantin, You forgot what you wrote about 5 posts ago.

Sincerely, Martin 

I did not write anything about a hard drive anywhere. You started the whole hard drive issue.

What I did write earlier was that a corrupt cf card could indeed upset the operating system enough so that it will create an error and store that error on both drives in exactly the same way. So it could still be card related.

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6 hours ago, Constantin said:

I did not write anything about a hard drive anywhere. You started the whole hard drive issue.

What I did write earlier was that a corrupt cf card could indeed upset the operating system enough so that it will create an error and store that error on both drives in exactly the same way. So it could still be card related.

Constantin, Quoting you from your earlier post:

"On the 788 I have had cards go bad sometimes, but the machine kept recording on the other media anyway." 

Since we know the "other media" on a 788t is a hard drive, there is your hard drive comment. 

sincerely, Martin 

 

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Constantin, Quoting you from your earlier post:
"On the 788 I have had cards go bad sometimes, but the machine kept recording on the other media anyway." 
Since we know the "other media" on a 788t is a hard drive, there is your hard drive comment. 
sincerely, Martin 

That's not a hard drive comment. Since you are simply inferring what I "meant" from what I wrote, you might've noticed I used the plural "media". So yes, one medium was a hard drive, but the other was another cf card.
Besides, this whole hard drive issue is really beside the point and you still didn't explain what you actually meant by your original comment...

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