Jacek Zagaja

Aaton XTR sync start/stop

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Aaton is trigered (start/stop) with simple non stable button. I'd like trigger audio recorder same way but most use dedicated remotes. Any idea which recorders (portable) can be started/stopped with one button? I want keep setup simple as possible. Zoom is nice because record 10s earlier.

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Does the Zoom have any sort of remote or logic port?  I think the F8 might, don't know about H-series.  Timecode enabled recorders can often stop/start via external TC transmitted from the camera.

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Question sent to Zoom but they are closed to 3rd January. I use Tascam DR100mk2. Both have remote plug with logic.

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Sound Devices 744 and 788 can perform some funcrions with a remote setup which you can build yourself - for example. They did sell a pretty sturdy switch to start/stop record on the 744. don't know of that worked on the 788, too.

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Any experience with Aaton Origin C? It fires camera and recorder by pressing #. Nagra IV TC was a standard that day but now is collector item very expensive and bulky.

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Any experience with Aaton Origin C? It fires camera and recorder by pressing #. Nagra IV TC was a standard that day but now is collector item very expensive and bulky.

No. Sorry, I didn't realize that's what you wanted.
The switch I mention does have a few out port that could perhaps be made usable with a camera. It also depends on what the camera offers.
The easiest way probably really is to use timecode from the camera to the recorder. With record run tc and external TC auto record mode, this is easy.

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744 is expensive. Fostex PD2? Question is: does Aaton send TC signal or must be initialized? Not sure.

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The Origine C COULD fire the Nagra into record via TC but we never used it that way--basically the drill was I rolled most of the time and the camera stopped and started as it pleased (having had its TC jam-synced to the Nagra or the Origine C box), and the Aaton TC system synced it all up in post (worked great).  We had too much trouble with the roll-up time of the Nagra and short bursts of filming to work with the camera controlling the recorder.  The filmmakers I worked with who used the Aaton system basically assumed I was rolling all the time...  The Origine C control required a sync cable between the camera (or box) and the Nagra, which was not going to fly in a doco situation.  If you can have a cable between your camera and the Tascam, maybe you could derive a simple switch closure signal from the camera that would roll the recorder--there were many such rigs back in the day.  Another idea is to just let the Tascam roll and figure out a system that triggers a bloop light and sound--that should be relatively simple to make, was very common at one time.

 

I see 744s around for under $2k now.  Zoom F4 is $650 new!   A Fostex PD2, or ANY DAT really, is a bad investment now--there are NO parts available, very few people left who can service them and they all are pretty worn--not a good thing re: those tiny tape transports...

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If Aaton sends record TC then should fire any TC recorder?

Yes - if that recorder has a TC mode, which on the 788 is called "ExtTC-Auto Record".

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Nagra IV-STC, although I can't recall the exact operating mode, and I don't have my Aaton manuals any more.  You could ask Aaton about this?  With an Aaton film camera and a Nagra I bet you can find a simpler way to stop start the recorder from the camera without using TC, prob a via the 4-pin "sync" port on the right side of the Nagra.

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Yeah, and 1/4" audio tape would seem very expensive here in the days of re-usable CF and SD cards!   I'd work on the switch closure-start thing between your camera and that Tascam recorder--might be possible!

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My friend is working on this. He was director at Panavision Poland long time ago and service film cameras for over 50 years.

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Aaton can't advice how to use Origin. I think it is useless if can't trigger both camera and recorder or expose TC on film.

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How to read code from recorder and visually match with code exposed on film? Both jammed with Origin.

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Clap sticks/smart slate - especially if the code is bleeding into the picture :-(

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I enquiried about this recently with Kodak UK telecine department. The colourist said they didn't have the required box on their telecine machine to read the code off, so they couldn't do it. Also mentioned that it was problematic as the code burn in tended to bleed into the picture as daniel said.

 We went with a smart slate instead.

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So there is no code in audio track I could import to popular applications and manually sync with picture?

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This is how TC on film looks like but my XTR prints ASCII only. 

IMG_5983.JPG

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I am trying to remember from a long, long, time ago, but when I started TC on film was quite a new thing. Aaton were first, then Arri on the SR. I seem to remember that the Aaton printed a barcode every few frames, and then the numbers less often. The barcodes were slightly exposure dependent, so if you changed ASA of the film, you needed to change the 'exposure' of the barcode, otherwise it might over expose, bleed, and read badly. We used to record the on a Timecode Nagra 4STC. The 1/4" tapes were transferred to 16mm magnetic stock, and the TC was printed on the back of the stock with a kind of modified rubber number machine. This was not a wholly reliable process.

Later on, the sound and film were synced up during telecine (or maybe it was an extra process) using the Aaton InDaw and or Keylink systems. I dont know if any labs/telecines still have these. 

Good luck, sb

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The "Aaton code" is the same SMPTE/EBU timecode format that is used in audio files of the currently available professional audio recorders. If you have the technology to read the Aaton code from the film - a telecine with the Aaton timecode Keylink hardware reader and the Keylink / Indaw software, you can sync audio with matching timecode to the film.  Alternatively, you could output the video though the Keylink hardware reader and software and then sync the audio in and Avid, FCP or Resolve. 

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