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DPA 4098 Noise Floor


KGraham045

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I just got 2 DPA 4098s with Zaxcom (Low DC) microdot connectors... I was doing extremely basic talking head interview on a sound stage so I put up my CMC641 plugged in to a TRX742 and just to be able to test a 4098 I bongo tied a TRX2.5 with the 4098.

The Scheops sounded brilliant as always but the 4098 has a noise floor that in no way is acceptable... This is my first experience with a DPA product. Anyone else's have this issue, specifically with Zax TRX?

 

I will upload a clip when I get a chance.

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When I first tested the 4098 I had the same reaction to the noise floor. I actually returned mine thinking the noise floor was too high to be usable. The reality is it is not. I actually now frequently rent Kelsey's 4098s for car work. Although the noise floor is unfortunate, the reach and tonal quality is still impressive for the size. You just need to keep that noise floor in mind with how you choose to use them. Since I mainly use them for car work it really isn't an issue. They are always close enough to the source to achieve a good ratio. Also, I would think that A/Bing with a CMC641 could even amplify your impression. 

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I have the Microdot Adapter DAD3057 for Zaxcom TRX900 (For Low DC Microphones)
so it shouldn't be
Attached is a file.
Left is CMC641 
Right is 4098
CMC641_VS_4098.wav

The adapter is the correct one, but the mic is wrong, it is not a low DC mic. The adapter won't change that. It needs 5V and the Zaxcom tx only provides 3V. This is why in their lav range, they have the low DC mics (eg 4063).
This will raise the noisefloor slightly
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5 hours ago, Constantin said:


The adapter is the correct one, but the mic is wrong, it is not a low DC mic. The adapter won't change that. It needs 5V and the Zaxcom tx only provides 3V. This is why in their lav range, they have the low DC mics (eg 4063).
This will raise the noisefloor slightly

That's what I thought but apparently it's not 

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I see what your saying. I spoke with a DPA rep and he didn't seem to think there would be any issue... same with my Trew Audio Rep. Both recomended the Low DC Microdot connecter.

I understand that the mic needs 5V but I have read about people using these mics with Zax TRX and no one seemed to be unhappy. 

I may trade in my Microdots for the XLR Adapters ( to use with TRX742) bc I don't see myself using them with the TRXs if those are the results...

 

BAB414 If you want, PM me and I can give you a clip so you can hear. (I'm not sure if the one I uploaded is working)

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In my experience the low DC mics are not necessary for zaxcom TX.  I have 4060's,  4063's, 4098's, and I use them side by side with out issue.  Theoretically it might raise the noise floor, but for practical use it's been a non issue.  I think the OP is just hearing the higher noise floor of the electret mic compared side by side with a very quiet condenser.

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 You might be right.  I was very excited to get the Mics, and I'm now a little turned off by them... Wondering ear have you used the 4098 with XLR?  Are the results different?

In another thread about the 4098 Jeff W tested the mic with the XLR adapter and he said that it was a bit quieter and generally seemed to sound nicer, but not by that much. In his own opinion, and that of others he referenced, the higher noise floor of the mic is a non issue.
And I agree, although I don't use them with Zax tx, but that voltage thing seems to have little influence. But most of us, I believe, use the mic as car plants most of the time, where a higher noise floor of the mic is the leadt of our concerns.
Use the mic in action, you will probably find that it's a very useful and nice sounding mic.
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I do have the xlr adaptors, I haven't directly A/B'd them, but I haven't heard a noticeable difference, so I go with the convenience of a trx900 and am happy.  I would encourage you to use these mics in the field a bit more before passing judgement.  They are a great tool in the tool kit, and not every tool is the best choice for every situation.  As a car mic, plant mic, podium mic, etc they are fantastic.

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I have two 4098 and use them with Zax TRXs. The noise floor is quite audible thats right. If I need a plant in a quiet set I´ll go for a CCM. Even in a car rig - if I have enough time and space to install a CCM, I will do so. But if in a hurry the DPA gives great result. Just don´t compare it AB with a Schoeps.

I´ve bought the XLR adapter and extension cable too - but this combo is very sensitve to Zax RFI. Not recommended.

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KGraham, I took a listen to your file and while the noise floor is noticeable, especially compared to the 641, it's not a deal-breaker for me. Especially with the plug-ins, denoisers, etc they have today. Plus, for moving car scenes, they'll do a good amount of sound design which I think would bury the hiss.

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Must say I was surprised recently when I got 2 4099's intending to use them for car shots.  I thought there was something wrong with the 302 the noise floor was so high.  Better sounding and slightly quieter using the xlr adaptors but not by much - I'll wait and see if they're a win over the cubs, yet to use in anger

 

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I've found the cubs to sound amazing at times, taking a lot of gain and seeming to lift the voice out without the car noise coming up too much - However I've tried them in other situations and been perplexed by the way they sounded - Centre stage for an opera recording for some low stage edge stuff - so 'crunchy' sounding, but truly fantastic for a cello spot for a tricky quartet recording I did

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  • 10 months later...

I myself am dealing with this issue as well. But consensus seems its part of deal and i do accept that. I was able to test with 1) a zaxcom trx and low dc microdot lemo adapter, 2) a lectro ssm with same adapter*, and 3) a lectro sma with microdot ta5f adapter. I have found what i feel to be pretty much the same unacceptable noise floor across all 3 tests, test number 3 being negligibly better.  All 3 transmitters required gain to be set all the way up to get acceptable yet still too low recording levels requiring more gain at the mixer to compensate.  The only thing that was helpful - but did not completely eliminate - was full noise reduction on a 411a receiver. My test was with a sitdown interview so especially after reading here, unacceptable is harsh judgement on my part. i now know after reading here this mic is not designed for that and it has its place where features far outweigh this noise. i tested a zmt3 w 4098 on a modified rycote suspension thinking it would be a super lightweight nevercliping built in recording boom alternative. Might still work in certain environments outside controlled sitdown intv settings. Sma might still sound best. I will still keep this mic and use where appropriate. 

 

I am famiiar with noise floor with lavs to varying degrees and since i use many different brands i have been conditioned over time to use certain mics on certain speaking levels to navigate those waters appropriately. I guess going in i was hoping this 4098 would be relatively on par with my most noise free lav. Unfortunately not in my experience.  

 

Am i missing any settings on the lectro side? The sma was best sounding combo with 411a full noise reduction. Would love equal results from ssm being smaller/lighter

 

*somwhere here i believe larry at lectro said the low dc is the adapter to use with ssm's and it was also said this is the same as the sennheiser microdot adapter just a different part number from dpa. Someone please correct me if i am wrong

 

-Ken

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2 hours ago, osa said:

[snip] Am i missing any settings on the lectro side? The sma was best sounding combo with 411a full noise reduction. Would love equal results from ssm being smaller/lighter

 

*somwhere here i believe larry at lectro said the low dc is the adapter to use with ssm's and it was also said this is the same as the sennheiser microdot adapter just a different part number from dpa. Someone please correct me if i am wrong

 

-Ken

Hi Ken,

The SSM noise floor should be identical to the SMa. (?)  There should not be a resistor in whichever microdot adapter you are using with the SSM. A resistor is not necessary with the SSM as it switches a load resistor into the input circuit when DPA is selected in the SSM mic menu, i.e., treat the DPA as just a common two wire mic for the SSM. (You do need to make sure the DPA is selected in the mic menu though.) All this is assuming this DPA4098 has the same circuity as the DPA lavalieres. This may have nothing to do with the difference but is the only reason I can think of for a difference in noise floor.

Best Regards,

Larry Fisher

 

 

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