mikewest Posted February 13, 2017 Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 Great stuff Philip and John After all these decades I find myself telling directors what they need and how I contribute. I don't just record sound I contribute, focus on my colleagues in other departments, and with actors presenters and documentary subjects to develop and a working relationship so we can relax and enjoy the process which I know adds to the experience for them and me! mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traut Posted February 13, 2017 Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 On 1/28/2017 at 2:08 PM, Mungo said: There is a moment when the director gets in love with a take and will definitely want to use it for the film. That's the point of no return - but if there is something not right with sound, you just have to say it after the camera has stopped. By mentioning it while there is the possibility to do it again, you're out of responsibility. But they will use that beloved scene anyway, eventually with ADR. It's useless to discuss and be that naysayer. If a serious problem shows up BEFORE that "love" moment, don't hesitate to stop that take. It's not so hard for them to start again then. Gear: Compare your sound recording to a meal in a restaurant and your gear to the ingredients: If all the ingredients are of high quality and chef's work is good the meal will be fine. If all the ingredients are of perfect quality and expensive but chef has no talent that meal won't be good. If just one or two of the ingredients are cheap or of minor quality, but all the other ingredients are perfect and chef's work is very good, the meal will also be very fine. If many of the ingredients are cheap and low quality that meal won't be good it no matter how good the chef is. NEVER stop the take. Maintain an eyeline with your director. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 Yes. Never stop a take. If it's that bad, they can hear it too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodpaul Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 Yes, never stop a take - aside from ADR or other options, talent is often fragile and and having someone they may not have even seen disrupt a scene can be jarring. Give the DP or director some credit - just as with a blown line, I usually notice a plane flying over, but in the interests of performance I'll wait until the next take to deal with it. You sound guys ruin us by being so good most of the time, despite often being left out of prep. While I try to find out what will work for sound, I confess I spend a lot more time with lighting and talent. I do believe there is renewed appreciation for good audio lately. As picture technology has improved, sound is noticed a lot more, and both at home and in theaters, reproduction is a lot better, and when audio isn't up to the picture, it's noticed. Most of the time the audio is consistently one of the most professional departments; it's just that the less professional tend to get noticed more than others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthias Richter Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 I can engage a private line on my mixer to the Director and do let him know if there is a problem. Than its up to him to call cut or to finish the take. So far every Director appreciated this kind of discreet way of telling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Spaeth Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 5 hours ago, RPSharman said: Yes. Never stop a take. If it's that bad, they can hear it too. YMMV. I had a few directors ask me why I didn't stop a take when I already knew that there was a problem. Normally they don't want somebody else to call cut but it really depends on the director's style of working, and also what they are used to. If they are used to very nitpicky sound folk they will wonder if you do your job right if you don't hassle them constantly, but if in turn they are used to the sound dept. never complaining they might get nervous if you let them know there are problems more than just once in a while. It's one of those things where the sound mixer's personality and ability to walk the tight rope of production sound is so important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 I agree with notifying director, either by standing up so he/she can look over if they want, and you can shake your head, or by a separate PL that can notify the director over headphones without getting into the mix. But I have only had one director in many dozens who asked me to actually say "cut" out loud if there was a problem. I thought she was crazy. I still do. If there's an issue in the middle of the take, and the actors aren't distracted, the end of the take may be great. The cast may be in the moment and delivering a great performance. It's why most good directors don't cut. You rarely need a complete take. There are clearly many methods, but I'd say confidently that if a sound mixer said "cut" on most sets I've worked on, they'd surely not be invited back on the next one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Waelder Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 I'm generally in agreement with the practice of never busting a take but I assume everyone is talking about the normal issues of bad sound and not actual calamities. I wouldn't hesitate to call "cut" if I found that the only sound recorder had stopped working. When you soldier on, there is an assumption that there is a sound track, perhaps a bad track, but still something. If there is nothing, I think it proper to abort unless the audio is effects only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungo Posted February 15, 2017 Report Share Posted February 15, 2017 9 hours ago, David Waelder said: I'm generally in agreement with the practice of never busting a take but I assume everyone is talking about the normal issues of bad sound and not actual calamities. I wouldn't hesitate to call "cut" if I found that the only sound recorder had stopped working. When you soldier on, there is an assumption that there is a sound track, perhaps a bad track, but still something. If there is nothing, I think it proper to abort unless the audio is effects only. 12 hours ago, Christian Spaeth said: Normally they don't want somebody else to call cut but it really depends on the director's style of working, and also what they are used to. Yes, that's what I meant. Depends on director and talents. There are productions in which even I would never do it. I spoke of really serious problems like a lav having fallen off while boom is out of reach, breakdown of sound gear, constant heavy RF issues. And of course productions where there's no ADR planned and would let production costs explode. It's not about a plane or sledgehammer anybody can hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianW Posted February 15, 2017 Report Share Posted February 15, 2017 Wow, this thread is full of great wisdom for our field! I have allot less experience than many of you guys, but trying to not be neurotic on set is a goal of mine. If I feel something ruined the take, I'll tell the most appropriate person in charge at the time, right after the take and before any conversation of the next setup. If it's reality or docu, and it's something really atrocious that I know just won't work, I may try to get the director's or AD's (or whomever is appropriate) attention and ask if I can get a line repeated while we still are rolling. But it has to be a pretty unique situation for me to just yell out in the middle of a roll. It really is a strange position to be in, to be the one whose fault it seems to be while we are holding for a helicopter tour overhead that just seems bent on staying in our space. If some uncontrolled third party suddenly shined an aircraft landing light into the camera lens, I really don't think the camera op would feel like it was his/her fault for having to hold the roll, but for us, that's exactly the case. Understanding and accepting that as an uncontrollable fact of life will lead to peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted February 15, 2017 Report Share Posted February 15, 2017 It's important to think of what's best for the film at that moment when considering interrupting a take. Actor energy and attention, what's fixable in post incl ADR, how many times you've interrupted them already that day, the mood and vibe on the set that day, are they about to do something irrevocable, like walk and talk on fresh grass or ground that can't be put back to pristine etc, or blow something up...? And it is kind of personal thing with directors, their tolerance for BG noise and how much experience they have in gauging how much of an issue it will be in post. Most of us have had the experience of, having agonized over some sound problem, being told that the director hated the take and had no intention of using it anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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