Philip Perkins

Current and near-future recording modalities

18 posts in this topic

I borrowed this picture from Mr. Sutoh Takahiro of the FB Zoom F8/F4 group.  There has been some discussion here about the advisability of using a tool like the Cedar DNS2 on location: here one is in action.  The juxtaposition of a $3k + NR tool and a $900 8/2 file based recorder seemed to me, and oldster, remarkable and perhaps an indication of a direction location recording is going.  There have been many calls on this board for recorder makers to up their DSP enough that something like the DNS2 could be included internally--this, and other DSP-hungry audio processes now seem possible given the pace of improvement in digital electronics these days.   I have the old-soundie Nagra bias when it comes to the construction and usability of location recorders, so the F8 didn't work out for me (returned it), but I still have to give it up to Zoom for packing so much into such a small box and having it sound quite good.  So...if they could do that much in the F8, what's the next step, and who will take it ?

16831057_1344469718950917_5142025246179914606_n.jpg

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Plate of Shimp. I headed down a similar thought trail yesterday when I stumbled upon this DSP-powered box:

More info: http://www.strymon.net/elcapistan/

Then I remembered the Audio-Technica 895 mic from 15+ years ago...Five elements that used DSP to change the mic's pickup pattern, control proximity effect, reduce BG noise (and more! ?).  @Jay Rose reviewed it for the magazine I edited at the time... IIRC, it seemed to be a really neat experiment that pointed to some possible future products...but kinda limited in its then-current iteration. Here's more info:

http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/2699aa819e371fd1/

And cameras already use signal processing for noise reduction, color "optimizing", format conversion, AWB, and driving auto focus & face tracking (I think I have this list right...might not).

So I too started thinking, with all these (apparently) affordable and low-power DSPs, how would I want to see them used in production sound? And I got kinda stuck in the "save all that signal processing for post" thinking. 

But maybe I'll become used to built-in noise reduction. Maybe voice tracking to help pull out the voice we want when several people are talking (don't ask me if this is possible or even a good idea). Make mediocre mics sound great, and improve in-field mic matching. Make mumblecore dialog intelligible as you record. Improve scripts. Make interviewees more insightful and succinct. 

I really have no idea, but hope to see some practical applications in a couple months.... 

 

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There you go:  "mic modeling" plugins that can make a fake SM57 sound just like a Schoeps CMIT!

"Tape crinkle".  I wish my DATs had had a "Tape De-Crinkle"!

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If this is to become part of the work flow, and I hope it does NOT, (the last thing the people we work for need to know is they can put us in even WORSE situations) then they should like the Dugan on the SD machines, include this in our current devices, or in the next crop of them..  

I do not want to have to record in a bag rig that looks like above... what a mess... my .02  

If that can't be done, forget it... let them deal with this in POST!!

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A microphone with a face-tracking small camera and gyros so when a PA holds the boom, the mic constantly repositions itself and remains on axis. 

Version 2: a small drone with with a face-tracking camera and microphone that remains in the optimal position above talent and uses some of the left-over DSP cycles to remove the sound of the drone rotors. Audio is sent wirelessly directly to post. We in the US spend our downtime complaining about the FAA instead of the FCC.

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3 hours ago, afewmoreyears said:

If this is to become part of the work flow, and I hope it does NOT, (the last thing the people we work for need to know is they can put us in even WORSE situations) then they should like the Dugan on the SD machines, include this in our current devices, or in the next crop of them..  

I do not want to have to record in a bag rig that looks like above... what a mess... my .02  

If that can't be done, forget it... let them deal with this in POST!!

Those people that I know who bought a DNS2 use them when there is no take 2 possible and/or to help improve the ambience of where they have to record. They always record a processed & unprocessed track for post (if there is any) to work on. I like to think of the DNS2 as a green screen for sound.

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3 hours ago, afewmoreyears said:

If this is to become part of the work flow, and I hope it does NOT, 

(etc)

If that can't be done, forget it... let them deal with this in POST!!

You know what I want in POST? A great story ... A great performance .... beautifully recorded.

Then I can get on with my REAL job

... which is? Yeah, I've forgotten ...

j x (cheers, afmy!)

 

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AND NO MUMBLING!  Recorder makers: make me a "de-mumblizer" function on your next machine!

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Thirty more summers ... I love mumbling - just needs a great mixer to bring it out?

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2 hours ago, Philip Perkins said:

AND NO MUMBLING!  Recorder makers: make me a "de-mumblizer" function on your next machine!

Apparently mumbling is "a thing" now (sadly).  "Mumblecore is a subgenre of independent film characterized by naturalistic acting and dialogue (often improvised), low-budget film production, an emphasis on dialogue over plot, and a focus on the personal relationships of people in their 20s and 30s."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumblecore

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I've posted mumblecore that was well recorded and needed very little repair (usually by editing from alts). The style/genre was the director's decision. The crafts (including acting) were still allowed to do their/our job.

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ithinkmumblecoregetsabadrapwhenusedcorrectlyitcanconveytheangstthatyoungpeoplefeeltoday.

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- rant on -

Are we going for reality, or are we trying to tell a story?  Mumbling in film, as in life, makes it hard to hear words.  Mumblecore is utterly and indefensibly ridiculous.  A genre driven by dialog that you can't hear.

I hate actors who mumble and think it's all dramatic.  Yes, I hate them.  I don't care how nice they are, if they mumble and I have to record them, I hate them.  When I watch something and the actors mumble, I hate them too.  If Mumbling were a country I'd want to invade it and erase its entire cultural history.

 Mumbling is only appropriate if the speaker is insecure about it, or wants you to not hear then.

- rant off -

Dan Izen

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Not sure what was funnier, Dan's rant or the picture of a zoom with a cedar! Nah, Dan wins!

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Total misdirection on Dan's part. He's just embarrassed that a couple years ago, I saw him with a full-festival pass to this:

MFF.png

 

And just so we can see Dan (and everyone) really go apoplectic:

How Mumblecore Films Are Changing the Hollywood Landscape 

By Alex Ferrari | March 8, 2017

How Mumblecore Films Changed Hollywood for the Better

The core of what filmmaking is that it has always been there to entertain people with different audio and visual sources along with some cinematic techniques and professionals. This entertainment has been evolved from different phases and now it is revolutionized to a complete new picture of streaming, television and film industry.

There was a time when people watch silent and unvoiced, dialogue less movies; then comes an era where there were black and white movies. And now we all watches colorful movies with songs and visual effects, even 3D, animated movies and the future VR (virtual reality) projects are also been made now days.

[I dare you to read all of the rest:]

https://indiefilmhustle.com/mumblecore/

 

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Apparently, Mumblecore has a symbiotic relationship with Semiliteratecore. 

 

 

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Wow.  It's real.  Damn it!  I've never seen any of those movies.  They don't sound like movies where actors mumble, more like how non-actors can't project.  The article calls it natural.  Bah!

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