Keep 302 as 633 Expander and Backup, Or Get 664?

[Dave]

Good Afternoon All,

On the verge of upgrading kit. What are your thoughts about keeping my 302 as a backup and to use as a channel expander with a SD633 when required?  Or, would it be wiser to just move up to a 664, though budget would probably dictate selling 302.   With the 302 as a 633 expander, is it possible to get 3 separate channels from 302 into 3 line-ins on 633 and record 6 simultaneous discreet tracks when needed? I can see feeding sd302 LR XLR outs for 2 channel expansion - how do I best get the 3rd channel out of the 302?

Having a backup/second bag 302 rig seems prudent though. I very much appreciate your thoughts and experience.

Thanks kindly.

Cheers,

Dave

 

 

[Mobilemike]

34 minutes ago, Dave said:

 With the 302 as a 633 expander, is it possible to get 3 separate channels from 302 into 3 line-ins on 633 and record 6 simultaneous discreet tracks when needed?

 

The 302 only has 2 outputs, so it cannot be used to feed 3 discreet sources into the 633. 

-Mike

[Rick Reineke]

The 302 is real handy to have around.  I'd keep the 302 even if I bought two 664s. The 302 has L&R Main, Tape and an assignable HP outputs..  no direct outs, prefade or otherwise. I s'pose you could solo a preamp (with the fader down) and take an unbalanced feed from the HP jack, but it's a clunky way of doing things.

[chrismedr]

If 6 ISOs are enough for you and all you need is 2 or 3 additional preamps then the 302 or a box like the Kortwich VCP-M3 might be a good choice. Neither of those will give you full mix capabilities on channel 4-6 since they will also affect the ISOs.

A 644 is more useful if you have to mix 6 channels, but it's also quite a bit bigger and heavier on small projects.

In either case, might be worth waiting if SD has an 633 add-on on NAB.

chris

[daniel]

It's not really an 'expander' in the sense of a CL6. Its just a means to get mic to line for those line only i/ps. You could do channel 6 with a line out radio mic. I've been in a similar dilema, I have a 302 (3 x mic i/p > 2 line o/ps) and a SQN 2s (2 x p48 + 2 x mic/line > 2 mix + 4iso line o/ps*). For me, it is which to keep. 302 or SQN. The SQN needs to go back to IOM to have the direct outs (c.£250). The 302 seems to have a higher market value but wont convert to direct outs. If you can get the signal to line level the minifaders are ok and there's automix if not or a CL12 for the bigger jobs. I like the idea SD are working on an accessory like this for the 633 but it would be a pleasant surprise for me and an unpleasant 1 for a couple manufacturers of after market products.

[Philip Perkins]

I'd keep the 302 in any case.  A box like that really allows better use of all the cool pre or post fade moni outs you can make on the 633 (like have instant level control, some routing, immediate kill capability; all with a great limiter/slate mic/tone etc and running for days on 3 Lith AAs).  A reminder: the 664, while having more tracks, does not do all the 633+688 style routings, if those are important to you. 

SD: that's a big Yes Please on a SMALL 6 fader surface for 633 (wired, not wifi).  Can it also have a mini keybd in it (like with short faders, so the footprint matches the 633)?  Doesn't need meters or buttons!  See the Zoom FRC 8, but with a keybd incorp'ed!

[Dave]

Thanks guys - all great advice. Yes, good point - new products at NAB might be worth waiting for :-)

Ciao,

Dave

[RPSharman]

I had no idea that little Zoom controller existed!! What a cool setup for a car rig. For process trailer work, I can imagine this would be a great option to get linear faders with a very small footprint. If SD doesn't introduce a mini panel for 633, then I might go get an F8!

[Philip Perkins]

The FRC is actually too big, I think, much bigger than the F8.  I was hoping for something about 8" square....sort of like the Zax mix 8.  I also really want it to incorporate a small keyboard, so there is just one "extra thing" instead of two.

[efksound]

5 hours ago, Philip Perkins said:

The FRC is actually too big, I think, much bigger than the F8.  I was hoping for something about 8" square....sort of like the Zax mix 8.  I also really want it to incorporate a small keyboard, so there is just one "extra thing" instead of two.

the FRC8 is almost the same size as the Mix8 , but a lot thinner
Trade off for the short faders,is getting a lot more of control, in fact you can control everything of the F8 from the FCR   

 

[Richard Thomas]

I bought a Sonosax SX-M32 as my first field mixer and have kept hold of it for a lot of the same reasons as others have used the 302.  Its advantages are that it has 3 direct outs and AES3 out

 

[Dutch]

I'd keep your 302 as it's a very versatile piece of gear. There's something special about those limiters too! Maybe someone here can explain why they seem to work better than the ones on the 633? I've used the 302 and 633 combo for many interesting applications (ex: pzm's + shotgun's) with good results. The 302 also provides an extra 3 channels of phantom power when needed without having to commit to the larger footprint of the 664 or 688. Not to mention that you're covering your butt by having two mixers if you also have a simple recorder such as the DR-40 which is what I use for emergency. You can get creative too in follow car or other challenging applications by having two mixers/recorders.

[Philip Perkins]

I'd really like to see the thing be no or not much wider than the 633 itself--ie  big diff from CL12, for car stuff, dinky jobs etc.  Keep it small and simple so it can be inexpensive!   No need for pan/trim knobs either, I think--keep it small enough that it will sit right in front of the 633.

[RPSharman]

The lack of trim knobs is why I don't like the CL12. If they're going to make something new, it should have trim knobs.

[Philip Perkins]

I guess, but my main knock on the FRC is that the trim knobs are also pan knobs.  Can't beat the price though.

[macruth]

3 hours ago, RPSharman said:

The lack of trim knobs is why I don't like the CL12. If they're going to make something new, it should have trim knobs.

It's my understanding that this is impossible given the hardware architecture of the 6 series... Hope I'm wrong

[RPSharman]

14 hours ago, Philip Perkins said:

I guess, but my main knock on the FRC is that the trim knobs are also pan knobs.  Can't beat the price though.

Aren't they one or the other? I'd think you would quickly get used to not having the wrong thing selected.

11 hours ago, macruth said:

It's my understanding that this is impossible given the hardware architecture of the 6 series... Hope I'm wrong

Perhaps that's true. I don't remember that from any of the previous discussions. It is a real shame, however, if trim can't be on a control panel. It's not that I use it constantly, but with narrative work, we do go to the gain knob from time to time more than just the setting at the start of the scene.