Freeheel

Quick question about tentacle sync

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Bash   

Wow... that conversation went well ;-) Personally I wouldn't be rushing out to buy ultra small and cheap TC generators at this time, it being just before NAB, where companies so regularly show their latest, newfangled, products. I would wait a few weeks....... ;-)

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Freeheel   

Jeez, I walk away for five minutes and the kitchen's a mess.

First of all I live in Doc world, so I like to be able to instantly know at all times whether sync is holding.  I usually work with pro cameras, so it's nice and easy to do a timecode count during a down moment or even sneak a peek at the camera display to make sure sync is solid.

But for the next project:

-The tentacle will be going to an audio track on a toy camera with no TC - a Sony FS 5.  So I can't casually look at it's timecode display over DP's shoulder and make sure we are still in sync.

-I CAN look at the audio input display and make sure that the tentacle is still plugged in and creating timecode that is going to the Audio track.

-I could put a comtek on the camera and send it to my return and then monitor the timecode by the sound of the code going by.  No really, I'm sure I could learn what 29.97 DF 17:45:23:24 sounds like as audio...

 

By far the easiest way of doing a quick check, is to see whether the 2 tentacles on B and A Cam are flashing synchronously, and that flash matches the top of the second on my recorder's timecode display.

It's what we did when we had to sync up 10 cameras with lockits, when they didn't have fancy displays.  We'd jam, and have 10 lockits in a pile, all flashing together like clockwork.  It was pretty obvious when one hadn't taken a jam properly.  

 

I hope this clarifies the topic a bit.  I'm not intending to create a perfect solution, just one that helps me feel a bit better throughout the day and gets me through till I can have a moment to pull the tentacles off the cameras and check them with the iPhone app...

 

Cheers,

Brent Calkin

 

 

 

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Brent, you will be fine. My earlier comment about accurately checking TC was aimed at those who started going on about human ability to see whether it was one frame out, or whatever by looking at the flash. FWIW - the Tentacles have been solid for me since I got them (I got two from their original IndieGo startup project). I would say that if you jam it from your recorder (or whatever solid master clock you use), see that the green flash keeps going, you will be in sync within half a frame over 12 hours. At least that is my experience. I do not even re-jam at lunch anymore. A few times I have left the tentacles on after a full day, until I get home, and checked them with the 6-series - still in sync every time I have done this test.

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10 hours ago, Freeheel said:

By far the easiest way of doing a quick check, is to see whether the 2 tentacles on B and A Cam are flashing synchronously, and that flash matches the top of the second on my recorder's timecode display.

Brent, that's all good and well......... except there is absolutely no where in the Tentacle Documentation, either in the Operating Manual' or on their Website, that suggests the flashing/blinking light on the Tentacle flashes on 'the top of the second' !!!

Whilst my experience with Tentacles would suggest that they do flash/blink on 'the top of the second' and that multiple Tentacle units will Flash/Blink synchronously, in the absence of any official statement to support that, you would be making an assumption. There is an old saying about how if you 'Assume' it will make an ASS out of U and ME.

As your original question was in relation to this, I think it is important to note, not to take issue with others but as a general warning as this is exactly how urban myths or misinformation spreads.

Clearly, as a quick visual check the flashing/blinking light serves that purpose well, but to reiterate it should only ever be used in the capacity it was designed for.......... a 'Status LED' which indicates the 'Mode' the Tentacle is in and the 'Condition' of the Battery.

 

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those who started going on about human ability to see whether it was one frame out

You can't see that they are one frame out, but you can see that they are out, even if it's just by one frame

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Freeheel   

 I have the things in my hands now, and they do flash at the top of the second, and whether it's a feature or a bug, I'm going to take full advantage of that.     

Brent Calkin

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On 4/12/2017 at 11:35 AM, chrismedr said:

no, the tentacles will blink green when they are started up as master unit or successfully synced to another master, and red when they are not synched. It's really very straight forward and I like it because it's hard to mess up.

Thank you, Chris, for the clarification. I think I have the sense of the matter. (Or, at least as complete as I need.)

David

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Ok, so I decided to go directly to the manufacturer 'Tentacle Sync' to seek some clarification on this........... a little surprised that the original question wasn't directed to them in the first place as they have a 'Contact' page as well as a 'Forum'.

Anyway the answer from them is: "Yes it blinks on the 1st frame for exactly 1 frame duration. If you want to test it, you have to use genlock on your camera."

So there you have it, straight from the horses mouth.

 

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IronFilm   

Another quick question about the Tentacle Sync..... what reasons are there now to still get it vs UltraSync One vs Mozegear Qbit (battery life is the 1st obvious reason) vs Ambient  NanoLockit?

On 4/14/2017 at 9:47 PM, Bash said:

Wow... that conversation went well ;-) Personally I wouldn't be rushing out to buy ultra small and cheap TC generators at this time, it being just before NAB, where companies so regularly show their latest, newfangled, products. I would wait a few weeks....... ;-)

Yup! It sure turned out that way.

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Another quick question about the Tentacle Sync..... what reasons are there now to still get it vs UltraSync One vs Mozegear Qbit (battery life is the 1st obvious reason) vs Ambient  NanoLockit?

What reasons are there to buy any of the others? The choice is yours.

It's still one of the smallest, lightest and cheapest TC boxes with very long battery life, and a proven TC accuracy for at least a whole shoot day.

A close competitor is the Nanolockit, no doubt. Just one thing to point out: the main advantage of the Nano is the wireless TC option. To take full advantage of that, you'll need at least one more ACN device.

And apart from a minimally quicker setup time, I don't see why you need the wireless capability. Unless you're actually using it in the extended network with the whole metadata sharing thing.

 

Oh, and remember the sync software that goes with it. Haven't heard that from the others

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Klaus   
16 hours ago, chrismedr said:

love the audio on that clip : )

haha, literally "rushes" ;) (had to go into shipping as NAB demos and FedEx was at the door step already) or a typical "Gun and run" if you prefer so....

Interesting fing on the T-Box, assume they got the scratch mic working on this one. Any other info what could be new?

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IronFilm   
13 hours ago, Constantin said:

What reasons are there to buy any of the others? The choice is yours.

It's still one of the smallest, lightest and cheapest TC boxes with very long battery life, and a proven TC accuracy for at least a whole shoot day.

A close competitor is the Nanolockit, no doubt. Just one thing to point out: the main advantage of the Nano is the wireless TC option. To take full advantage of that, you'll need at least one more ACN device.

And apart from a minimally quicker setup time, I don't see why you need the wireless capability. Unless you're actually using it in the extended network with the whole metadata sharing thing.

 

Oh, and remember the sync software that goes with it. Haven't heard that from the others

Ah, thanks for reminding me of this. So if I get say just one Tentacle Sync plus one Nanolockit then I'll be missing out on the benefits of having Nanolockits. It would make more sense for all the TC boxes I have to be Nanolockit, or none of them. 

12 hours ago, Christian Hermans said:

Psst- Rumours 

IMG_0424.JPG

Ahhhh.... ha, let's throw yet one more into the mix just to make that decision even tougher! :-P 
Will be announced at NAB? Guess we'll find out very soon.

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Uli just show me, how to Sync many tentacels with their app (no cable to phone). They can be connected via  Bluetooth and between the boxes . For me the intern microphone isn't important, but it should sound better.

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Klaus   
4 hours ago, Christian Hermans said:

Uli just show me, how to Sync many tentacels [...] via  Bluetooth and between the boxes.

That'll be intersting to see, indeed. BT is just p2p and even more quite latency prone varying between 70-300mS , depending on hardware implemetation on both ends and limited range. Which is why we decided on 802.15.4 instead .2 and thus, no mobile device support.

If they make this work reliably, hats off.

 

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That'll be intersting to see, indeed. BT is just p2p and even more quite latency prone varying between 70-300mS , depending on hardware implemetation on both ends and limited range. Which is why we decided on 802.15.4 instead .2 and thus, no mobile device support.
If they make this work reliably, hats off.
 

As I understand it, it's only for initial setup, not for syncing throughout. Latency is no issue then, and range isn't either

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27 minutes ago, Constantin said:


As I understand it, it's only for initial setup, not for syncing throughout. Latency is no issue then, and range isn't either

That's right! Via Phone you can see all informations Tc, Battery status, Framerate etc. and you can choose each Tentacle on it or all to make changes.

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1 minute ago, Christian Hermans said:

That's right! Via Phone you can see all informations Tc, Battery status, Framerate etc. and you can choose each Tentacle on it or all.

Any word if there will be an Android app that supports these features?  Or is it only iOS?

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One thing to note if one is looking at purchasing or using Tentacle Sync, is to consider if audio post will be working on a Mac or PC. As of the moment, I've had hit and miss experiences syncing audio to video on a PC using Tentacle Timecode Tool and DaVinci Resolve (one of the only software that can read LTC and burn it in as timecode Metadata). On a Mac, they have Tentacle Sync Studio which is a breeze to work on since Tentacle was first built for that platform. Also make sure if the audio post house has indeed worked with Tentacle Synced material, as the softwares mentioned above are not free.

Sent from my SM-N9208 using Tapatalk

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