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Sound Devices Mix Pre-3 and Mix Pre-6


afewmoreyears

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actually I find it a bit disturbing that a lot of things are not covered in the manual and we have torevert to watch youtube videos to find things out. here a new one from SD on the advanced mode:

 

short story from that is that the high pass filters go down to 40Hz (not 80 as mentioned in the manual) and that it looks like trim gain has to be set by the headphone encoder indeed (doh). let's hope that the method described by Paul earlier on works easier.

they say they'll do more tutorials, but I'd prefer they'd write a proper manual.

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Hi Curtis,

thanks for chiming in, I just watched your video (for those interested, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McW2QqVh1jM) - lot of nice info. two things I noticed: 

- according to Paul from SD, the file headers are periodically saved, so loosing power will not loose data:

On 4/29/2017 at 4:57 PM, Paul Isaacs said:

MixPre updates file headers during recording so If u lose power your recording is safe.

- and according to the video above, you can disable recoding the LR mix track (in the record menu)

and one more thing, Paul mentions that it's possible to use the faders as trim in this way:

On 4/21/2017 at 5:12 AM, Paul Isaacs said:

Folks - you can use channel knobs to adjust your ISO levels. To do this, you would select Custom mode and set Record to Advanced and leave Channel set to Basic. When Channel is set to Basic, ISO levels are post channel knob and when Record is set to Advanced, ISOs can be armed.

 

could you try to see if you can make this work?

chris

 

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11 hours ago, Coolwing said:

So, after the lead in.  Why is it that, dare I say many, of the posters to this thread have expressed interest in, if not claiming to be buying a MixPre when it ships, yet I've seen several of the usual suspects (a phrase popular on this forum) totally disparaging the Zoom Products; F4 and F8 respectively?  I believe the terms "cheap Chinese garbage", "toys", "not serious gear", etc have been bandied about.  However, the moment SD announces a similar product, the fawning begins.  Now, to be fair, I've already preordered mine, and I have my reasons. 

"...................

p.s.  Knowing some of the personalities here, I'm already prepared for the snarky comments that will ensue.  And just to cover one more area: "it depends". .............

Hi Coolwing, firstly +1 to James Louis for responding first with points: don't mind me please if I repeat them.

Secondly, sadly (for me at least who always took his advice and comments seriously) "it depends" no longer posts although many use the phrase in deference.

Personally I think this 'sub 1000' (or even sub 2000) area has been much slower arriving and we should all be grateful for the small handful of recent decent machines that have come about. To put things in some perspective it seemed to many professionals in film post production and the music industry that (for instance) Protools was less interested in a commercial sense with selling high end units to us than software to millions of bedrooms.

For me, at the moment (barring the 'old' but still current DR680 and R44), none of the machines provide the simple sync/cascade that aes3 (or spdif) allow, although perhaps the hdmi and software will change this for the MP.

I still long/look for a 4+ channel small portable unit to travel with. Although I have no immediate need for one with no travel plans in place. As things stand my choice has become (for completely different reasons for each) the Tascam DR70 (cheapest), MixPre6 (nice in many ways) and the Zoom F8 (advantage for me being the 8 preamps).

As that shows my three 'choices' are completely different machines with different capabilities in different price ranges. I actually think the MP6 is a competitor for the F4 and the 701D, not the F8 (nor 70D). I can't really comment in choice against these three since it's not my market. The edge for me might be the F8 since I would like the option of the 8 preamps, but specifics for a trip might push me elsewhere particularly if I only needed 4 channels. Pluses for the F8 are also (as now) the outputs and the TC generation. Pluses for the MP6 include the analogue input limiters.

I applaud Roland and Tascam for entering 'our' market (although DSLR as a former Panavision worker is itself hardly what I used to think of as filmmaking), Zoom for upping their game - and everyone else's in doing so - and SD for daring to undermine their own market by joining in.

And for me the Swiss were always the 'industry standard'. Until I used the Cantar.

Jez

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9 hours ago, chrismedr said:

and one more thing, Paul mentions that it's possible to use the faders as trim in this way:

On 4/21/2017 at 4:12 AM, Paul Isaacs said:

Folks - you can use channel knobs to adjust your ISO levels. To do this, you would select Custom mode and set Record to Advanced and leave Channel set to Basic. When Channel is set to Basic, ISO levels are post channel knob and when Record is set to Advanced, ISOs can be armed.

 

could you try to see if you can make this work?

I have tried this and it works to some extent in that the ISOs can be armed as Paul says (of course, you also need to set the gain option to basic in the custom setup). The channel knobs then give a 'gain' range of -14-96db, which is, of course, how they function in basic mode (where there is no separation of gain/trim from fader levels): they do not adopt the range of gain/trim in advanced mode (6-76db). You also have the limitations of basic mode for channel settings: i.e. you cannot link channels, pan is only L R or C, and low cut is on or off (rather than with settings for 40, 80, 120 and 160hz). Hope that helps.

Cheers,

Roland

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1 hour ago, Throwback said:

I have tried this and it works to some extent in that the ISOs can be armed as Paul says (of course, you also need to set the gain option to basic in the custom setup). The channel knobs then give a 'gain' range of -14-96db, which is, of course, how they function in basic mode (where there is no separation of gain/trim from fader levels): they do not adopt the range of gain/trim in advanced mode (6-76db). You also have the limitations of basic mode for channel settings: i.e. you cannot link channels, pan is only L R or C, and low cut is on or off (rather than with settings for 40, 80, 120 and 160hz). Hope that helps.

Hi Roland,

thanks testing - sounds not quite optimal for my intended use though : /

Paul, is it technically possible to add a menu option to just swap trip and fader knobs behaviour in advanced mode (i.e. the big knobs on the front become trim, and the headphone encoder in the channel menu becomes fader?)

If so I'd really much prefer that, so please consider this option as a feature request.

chris

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2 minutes ago, chrismedr said:

Paul, is it technically possible to add a menu option to just swap trip and fader knobs behaviour in advanced mode (i.e. the big knobs on the front become trim, and the headphone encoder in the channel menu becomes fader?)

If so I'd really much prefer that, so please consider this option as a feature request.

chris

+1 for what Chris said. 

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21 hours ago, Coolwing said:

I've been reading posts on this forum for quite some time and have made some very informed (I feel) purchases based on what I've read here (i.e. MKH-50).  I've always enjoyed the varying opinions that are accompanied by the reasons and experience of the poster, not just some ignorant statements that are also prone to this forum.  And unlike most neophyte posters to this forum, I also realize that many of the questions asked here are subjective and do not have a definitive answer.

 
So, after the lead in.  Why is it that, dare I say many, of the posters to this thread have expressed interest in, if not claiming to be buying a MixPre when it ships, yet I've seen several of the usual suspects (a phrase popular on this forum) totally disparaging the Zoom Products; F4 and F8 respectively?  I believe the terms "cheap Chinese garbage", "toys", "not serious gear", etc have been bandied about.  However, the moment SD announces a similar product, the fawning begins.  Now, to be fair, I've already preordered mine, and I have my reasons.  One being I don't own a 633.
 
However, is this just fanboy hype, or is there reason to think lesser of the Zoom products?  Odd that SD listed dbV instead of dbu, which if my calculations are correct, puts it at the same input noise level as the Zooms.
 
And don't get me wrong, I know SD is industry standard.  I'd just like to know for myself and others why a feature rich product like the Zoom F4 (which includes TC, two sd cards, more inputs, XLR outs, etc) is disparaged, while the SD at same price point is lauded?
 
p.s.  Knowing some of the personalities here, I'm already prepared for the snarky comments that will ensue.  And just to cover one more area: "it depends".  Now that we have that covered, any serious response would be appreciated.

The problems you're encountering are self-generated:  

1). You're in the wrong forum,  

2). Your defensive attitude of entitlement.

This forum is by, and for, professional, working sound mixers.  While many neophytes such as yourself show up and seek beginning advice, that really makes you an interloper and posts such as the above paint you as a bit of a troll. There are forums that are intended for beginners.  This isn't one of them.

It is a demonstration of tolerance and generosity that professionals here indulge neophyte questions, rather than a black mark that from time to time we point out when someone has ventured into a forum intended specifically for working professionals.

As an answer to your question, our view of gear follows a similar path.  So, in this case, Sound Devices is a company that for many years has made top notch equipment designed to meet our needs. It is with this history in mind that we address any new offerings they may release. 

A negative attitude such as yours makes beginners even less welcome.  Please show some respect to the qualified members of this forum.  It will make your questions much less invasive.

FWIW:  "The Usual Suspects" as we apply it refers to the specialized professional sound dealers (Trew, Gotham, Location Sound, et al) who support our community.  We employ the phrase as a way to differentiate them from mass-market big-box retailers such as B&H.

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14 hours ago, pocketworld said:

I got my MP6 last week and I've been putting it through its paces. Working on a review but until then here's a few downloadable recordings:

 

Thanks for sharing but what exactly those recordings are, with the 633 or MP6?

You also wrote 633 vs MP6, where is the comparison?

It would be helpful to know as well what microphones/setup did you use.

thank in advance.

 

 

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56 minutes ago, itaro said:

Thanks for sharing but what exactly those recordings are, with the 633 or MP6?

You also wrote 633 vs MP6, where is the comparison?

It would be helpful to know as well what microphones/setup did you use.

thank in advance.

 

 

If you click through to the SoundCloud page, it lists what the setup is. If I remember correctly, the MP6 is in the left channel and the 633 is in the Right.

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14 hours ago, Throwback said:

I have tried this and it works to some extent in that the ISOs can be armed as Paul says (of course, you also need to set the gain option to basic in the custom setup). The channel knobs then give a 'gain' range of -14-96db, which is, of course, how they function in basic mode (where there is no separation of gain/trim from fader levels): they do not adopt the range of gain/trim in advanced mode (6-76db). You also have the limitations of basic mode for channel settings: i.e. you cannot link channels, pan is only L R or C, and low cut is on or off (rather than with settings for 40, 80, 120 and 160hz). Hope that helps.

Cheers,

Roland

I just got my MP6 today so I haven't had a chance to actually record anything, just to play with it a bit. It seems to me though that in Custom mode, if you set "Gain" to "Basic" but leave "Channel" on "Advanced" (and Record on Advanced like Paul said) then that approaches what we want to do. Namely in this mode it seems like the channel faders do act like gain pots (albeit with the modified -14-96db range), but since the channel is in advanced mode you still have access to all of the other channel settings like full pan, low cut settings, and linking. I'll play with it a bit more to confirm, and perhaps someone else can confirm also. 

It seems like this is akin to setting your ISO's post-fader. 

That said, I'd still love a feature to be able to quickly switch the faders between fader and gain mode - perhaps by pressing the star key. 

Here's another question which I may have missed: What is the default setting of the low cut filter in basic mode? And can you enter Advanced mode, choose the filter frequency you want, and then go back into basic mode and have the low cut still be at that frequency?

-Mike

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Mike - you are also correct that you can put Channel in Advanced mode to get your full pan and low cut settings. I said in my earlier comment that you set Channel to Basic - that's wrong - I meant set Gain to Basic so that your ISOs are post channel fader knob.

Edited by Paul Isaacs
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I'm working on a series of videos for these new recorders. Rather than have one big long video I'm breaking it down into separate videos that cover specific topics. This is the first intro video. I'm working on one right now that talks about power solutions. Go ahead and subscribe if you want to get notified when I release more of these. There's other stuff on my channel as well. 

 

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On 4/20/2017 at 1:55 PM, Nic Stage said:

The USB-C connection is for powering and computer connection only and the USB-A connection is for a keyboard connection only. It isn't possible to use the AC power supply while operating as a USB audio interface on the computer. However, for computers that don't supply enough power on the USB port, there is a special cable included (MX-USBY) with one USB-C connector and two USB-A connectors. The MixPre-3 and -6 will still operate with a straight USB-C to USB-A cable on devices with lower-powered USB ports, but there will be some limitations (Dimmed LCD, Only 2 inputs can have phantom power at a time, USB-A port disabled, and HDMI timecode disabled). On devices with sufficient power on the USB ports, the MixPre-3 and -6 will operate with all features with a straight USB-A to USB-C cable and the MX-USBY wouldn't be required.

I'm quite a bit bummed to report that what Nic said here doesn't seem to be the case. I've tried my MixPre-6 now on the USB ports of three different computers - a MacBook Pro, a MacBook Air, and a Mac mini, as well as the USB port of a powered thunderbolt hub, and none of them seem to put out enough power to fully power the MP6. I get the orange (low power) mode with all of them. I've tried both the stock cable that the MP6 comes with as well as another (up to spec) straight USB C-USB A cable. 

All of these computers/devices have had plenty of power in the past for whatever device I wanted to use with them, including various hard drives and a Sound Devices USBPre 2, so I find it hard to believe that their ports are underpowered. 

Could one of the SD guys possibly comment on this?

-Mike

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I've been using the Mixpre-3 for mid-side recordings, both encoding to stereo and just for headphone monitoring. What I couldn't understand is why the pan controls for both channels 1 and 2 remain active (and not greyed out) in MS-linked and, indeed, stereo-linked modes: see pic of channel 2 in MS-linked mode. SD have confirmed that this is a bug (and that it doesn't apply to the Mixpre-6) and suggest that, while a fix is awaited, make certain to set the pan controls to centre: edit - I've just tested the latter and this doesn't seem quite right...

Cheers,

Roland

PS Mike and Paul thanks for clarifying the custom settings for post-fader ISOs.

_2690096.jpg

Edited by Throwback
corrected text following testing of SD workaround
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I have a Mix Pre 3.   I am pretty happy with its performance and features,  but am most disappointed with the battery life.   Using the included 4 AA battery sled with Alkaline cells the recorder kills a set of 4 Duracells in less than an hour.  I have other small stereo recorders and they seem to run for multiple hours on a single AA cell or 2 AAA cells.  Even with the LEDs set to their minimum and bluetooth off and only 1 phantom channel turned on it still kills the batteries pretty quickly.   You certainly need more external power and the solutions offered by SD seem pretty clunky in that they don't allow the recorder to lay flat with the battery sleds loaded.  Also no mention anywhere in any of the documentation on whether it will charge lithium Ion or NiMh batteries when powered off of the USB-C power supply.  Anyone know an answer to this?

 

I also found a bug in the Timecode function.  When inputting external time code with the Date in the User Bits, The User Bits are interpreted incorrectly by the Mix Pre 3 (and or 6).  The digit pairs MM DD YY XX  are converted to different numbers (base 16 to base 10 conversion)

They are already in base 10 and shouldn't be converted.  I have let Sound Devices know about this and they say it will be fixed in the next firmware update.  Also when using the timecode function with Time Of Day mode  (pulled from the less accurate internal Real time clock)  it puts the correct time in the Timecode chunk of the Broadcast Wav file but puts all 0000s in the User Bits.  I think the user bits should have the Date inserted which is also available from the Real Time Clock.  This would keep the time code fields from containing duplicate time code from day to day.  Much more useful for transcription if the date is also stored in the User Bits metadata of the time code.

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I have a slightly unusual query about the MixPre 6 spec?.....The device has an extended bandwidth up to 80KHz at 192KHz sampling, which makes it an ideal high quality recorder of ultrasonic 'sounds' in the natural world. 

It would be really useful if that full 80KHz bandwidth extended all the way through the signal path to the output, so that the output could be connected via an  heterodyne converter to monitor the ultrasonic recording.

Sound Devices support suggest the full bandwidth should extend throughout the whole signal path, but "Engineering has no time to confirm this at the moment"...

Does anyone know of that particular test being carried out by any of the expert users/reviewers here on the board?... Unlikely of course, but you never know!

Sound Devices suggest I might like to do my own test on a rental unit, before I purchase, but I think it might be some time before I get a chance to find a rental MixPre 6 here in the UK !.....

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