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2 hours ago, ABBloch said:

Well, if someone's so far gone that they can't remember to turn things on, I'm not sure what to tell them.  Perhaps retirement?  :D

 

Well, maybe. This isn’t about forgetting, though. But you were saying that the wireless sync option might be helpful in a crane scenario. So what you were saying, then, was that you put a TC box on the camera and switched it on, but didn’t jam it? And now you feel lucky, because now you can do exactly that again, but this time it won’t be a problem as you can sync wirelessly?

Now, who should consider retirement? 

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Are we really gonna debate this one?  OK, wow.  Here goes.  :)

 

1 hour ago, Constantin said:

Well, maybe. This isn’t about forgetting, though.

 

It isn't?  What IS it about, then?

You envisioned a scenario in which the box is not on, and camera is not easily accessible, right?  What do you imagine, other than forgetting, could cause that circumstance?

The only other cause I can think of would be a dead battery.  But that can't be what you were thinking, or you would not have asked the question of how to turn it on.  If the battery were dead, turning it on wouldn't be an option, obviously. 

So, if it's not about forgetting, and not about power failure, then what?

 

2 hours ago, Constantin said:

 

But you were saying that the wireless sync option might be helpful in a crane scenario.


I've found it's helpful in EVERY scenario, but do go on. :)
 

 

2 hours ago, Constantin said:

 

So what you were saying, then, was that you put a TC box on the camera and switched it on, but didn’t jam it?


That's the situation I suggested, yes.  It doesn't happen often, of course, but it's not impossible.  Someone taps you on the shoulder, you turn to talk to them, the camera guy takes off, jam doesn't happen.

 

You might ask, if a distraction like that can prevent a jam, couldn't it also prevent a power up?  Well, nothing's impossible, but it's highly unlikely.  Turning it on happens in the same motion as taking it out of the case and handing to the camera guy.  It's all one motion.

You might also ask, why not jam it before handing it off?  If you're carting, then you probably would.  But if you're bagging and booming, it's often easier to jam after the box is already on the camera.  One less thing to hold.

 

 

2 hours ago, Constantin said:

 

And now you feel lucky, because now you can do exactly that again, but this time it won’t be a problem as you can sync wirelessly?


Well, luck has nothing to do with it, but yes, I feel pretty good about the fact that I no longer need to jam anything at all, ever.  Everything syncs up automatically, without my having to lift a finger.  I'm not sure how that could be seen as a bad thing in any way.

I challenge you to go wireless for a week, and then try to go back.  You'll feel like you're in the stone age.

 

 

2 hours ago, Constantin said:

Now, who should consider retirement? 

 

Not I. :)

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So my .02 worth.  Around here most camera people don't want to doing anything with their cameras that is not video related, even the DIT/AC people to a lesser degree don't want what I want to add to the camera.  So, mostly I simply power on the sync units along with the audio receiver, standby while they are building cameras and just jump in with my gear, plug it, check for code and audio, then leave it.

Most of the current sync boxes will easily run for the day on their battery, end of day pull it off.  Once again camera people don't want to deal with my stuff, so I jump in a pull it off.

99.8% of the time everything is fine.  Once in a while something will be unplugged or moved.  Just today, after I had rigged the cameras, later into the build stage, I see them moving some of my kit to add Serv Pros to each camera.

So really whatever sync method you are using is fine, some have more or less features, bottom line is do they work for you in the environment you work in.  I am a fan of simply and work smarter.  Can I change something that makes life easier for me.

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6 hours ago, ABBloch said:

You envisioned a scenario in which the box is not on, and camera is not easily accessible, right?  What do you imagine, other than forgetting, could cause that circumstance?

 

No, I didn't envision a scenario, I was following your example where the TC box might end up unsynced on a crane. The only thing I could come up with was that perhaps you had left the thing on the camera the night before or whatever, but still switched it off (or maybe camera crew did). Then next day it'd be already up on the crane and you could then wake it up with the wave. That was my question anyway. That would not have been an issue with forgetting something. You know, there is this TC box (I forgot which one), which can be powered by the camera and it will switch on and off with the camera. If you can sync that one wirelessly, you wouldn't ever need to touch it again. 

I couldn't even begin to imagine (still can't) how you can switch the box on, but then forget to jam it to your recorder. Reminds me of the goldfish in its bowl that swims around once, and has already forgotten that it had already been there. 

 

6 hours ago, ABBloch said:

Everything syncs up automatically, without my having to lift a finger.  I'm not sure how that could be seen as a bad thing in any way.

 

It's not a bad thing. Don't think anyone said it was.

 

6 hours ago, ABBloch said:

But if you're bagging and booming, it's often easier to jam after the box is already on the camera.  One less thing to hold.

 

Not for me. I have the TC cable on the side of my bag and it won't stretch all the way to the camera from there. So when I am bagging, I am syncing straight away. Same as when I am on the cart, though. 

 

5 hours ago, drpro said:

Once in a while something will be unplugged or moved

 

You know, the new Tentacle E can show you on your phone app whether or not a cable is attached. 

6 hours ago, ABBloch said:

Not I. :)

 

So neither of us should retire. 

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3 hours ago, Constantin said:

You know, the new Tentacle E can show you on your phone app whether or not a cable is attached.  

 

Is app showing if Tentacle cable is attached to Tentacle/camera/either?

Sounds like a very nice feature and (if not available on other TC devices?) would put Tentacle close to the top of my list - for it's simplicity and solutions to 'real world' usage (like being unplugged :-(.

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1 hour ago, daniel said:

 

Is app showing if Tentacle cable is attached to Tentacle/camera/either?

 

Unfortunately it only shows connection of the cable on the Tentacle itself. I asked about the other end, but they‘d need to send a small current down the cable and somehow receive a return, I suppose. Maybe later. 

Nonetheless, this takes care of the lack of a screw on plug, something many users, including myself, had been worried about initially. Well, that and the bracket they have now for the plug.  

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13 hours ago, Constantin said:

 

No, I didn't envision a scenario, I was following your example where the TC box might end up unsynced on a crane.


If you want to split hairs over who authored what part of the sceneario, Phillip came up with the crane, I added unsync'ed, and you added powered-off.  So, the final version of it was yours, which is what I'd meant by "envisioned".  Make sense?

 

13 hours ago, Constantin said:

 

The only thing I could come up with was that perhaps you had left the thing on the camera the night before or whatever, but still switched it off (or maybe camera crew did). Then next day it'd be already up on the crane and you could then wake it up with the wave. That was my question anyway. That would not have been an issue with forgetting something. 

 

OK, that series of events tracks.   But technically, somebody would still have forgotten, the camera op.  Have we found our retiree? :D

I think we've sufficiently beaten this part of our discussion to death by now, so I'm happy to move on from it, if you are. :)
 

13 hours ago, Constantin said:

 

You know, there is this TC box (I forgot which one), which can be powered by the camera and it will switch on and off with the camera. If you can sync that one wirelessly, you wouldn't ever need to touch it again.

 

That is a cool idea.  I'm going to suggest it to Timecode Systems.

 

As it is now, you could power the USO off the camera via a D-Tap to USB adapter.  You still wouldn't be able to turn it on or off remotely, though, unfortunately.  I'm wondering if TCS could make it work just with a firmware update, or if it would require a hardware change.

 

13 hours ago, Constantin said:

 

Not for me. I have the TC cable on the side of my bag and it won't stretch all the way to the camera from there. So when I am bagging, I am syncing straight away. Same as when I am on the cart, though.

 

I bow to your superior non-butterfingers-ness, good sir.

Before I went wireless, I preferred using coiled TC cables, which had no trouble stretching from the side of the bag to the camera.  The habit probably got left over from before I owned any sync boxes at all.  I'd jam the camera itself, directly from the bag, back then.

 

13 hours ago, Constantin said:

 

You know, the new Tentacle E can show you on your phone app whether or not a cable is attached.


I like that feature.  It may be overkill on the USO, since the cables do lock on, but still, you can never have too many safety nets.  I'm going to suggest this to TCS, as well.

 


 

13 hours ago, Constantin said:

So neither of us should retire. 

 

Agreed. :)

 

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On 1/16/2018 at 12:14 PM, Constantin said:

I have only handled a USO once briefly, but it felt like and was told it doesn’t hold adhesives well. So I was curious how you did it. Velcro as such doesn’t tell me much. Is it a special kind? 

When I mentioned this earlier in this thread, the reply seemed to confirm my worry and the solution sounded more drastic than Velcro, but maybe I over-interpreted that reply. 


I'm guessing the person who told you that it doesn't hold adhesives well got it wrong. As I've had no such issues ever. 

 

On 1/16/2018 at 1:34 PM, Philip Perkins said:

I'm sorry, but this sort of issue has been solved for a long time.  You jam sync two (or more) reliable TC boxes to the master recorder with good batteries, and everything stays in sync for 8+ hours.  The cameras can be on the other side of a metal wall, up on a crane, in a submarine underwater or in an aircraft flying overhead--sync stays good.  Why make this more complex with the addition of wifi or anything involving wireless transmission?


You never know when something silly might happen like a clumsy AC drops a timecode box so it loses sync, at least wireless helps you stay on top of errors like this popping up. 

 

On 1/16/2018 at 3:37 PM, ABBloch said:

I've done this for all manner of devices, over the years.  It's an easy way to keep stuff protected, for almost no expense.  If you do it right, it looks very professional.  Most people won't even realize it's just tape.

 


I'd be curious to see a pic of this if you have a photo to share, sounds interesting.

 

 

On 1/16/2018 at 6:07 PM, chrismedr said:

(like for my use, I prefer having a built-in camera mic for a scratch track over Genlock and wireless synch for example).


Yup, and this is why I'm not leaping to sell my Tentacles v1 just yet. 

 

On 1/17/2018 at 9:11 AM, ABBloch said:

To answer your question as asked, no, you can't remotely turn the USO's on (or off).


You can start/stop GoPros via the blink network which I reckon is pretty nifty. 

 

 

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20 hours ago, Constantin said:

I couldn't even begin to imagine (still can't) how you can switch the box on, but then forget to jam it to your recorder. Reminds me of the goldfish in its bowl that swims around once, and has already forgotten that it had already been there. 

 


Never been in a situation where you got told prior to the shoot that fps is 24, but then midway through set up you find out it is really 25fps? Happens now and then on these disorganised low budget shoots. Wireless could be beautifully handy for such a situation. 

In the end, wireless is nowhere even close to *essential* (well, for most of us. Am sure there is someone here who thinks it is!), but in the end it is nicer to have it than not have it. 

 

 

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On 18.1.2018 at 5:21 AM, IronFilm said:


Never been in a situation where you got told prior to the shoot that fps is 24, but then midway through set up you find out it is really 25fps?

 

Just once.  I just walked up to the camera and took my tc box off and re-jammed. After all they had to change the fps as well. Even if the camera had been up in the air somewhere, they would have brought it down for this. My main goal in life isn’t to not bother camera crew ever. It’s not a problem, we‘re all colleagues. 

 

I‘ll point out that while Tentecles don’t sync over wireless, they can be controlled by a (free) bluetooth app, and that includes framerate changes. Without extra hardware needed. 

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2 hours ago, Constantin said:

 

Just once.  I just walked up to the camera and took my tc box off and re-jammed. After all they had to change the fps as well. Even if the camera had been up in the air somewhere, they would have brought it down for this. My main goal in life isn’t to not bother camera crew ever. It’s not a problem, we‘re all colleagues. 

 

I‘ll point out that while Tentecles don’t sync over wireless, they can be controlled by a (free) bluetooth app, and that includes framerate changes. Without extra hardware needed. 

Would the Tentacles need to be re jammed with a cable after any changes made through app (inc frame rate changes) or once the clocks are jammed the other changes just work?

 

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50 minutes ago, daniel said:

Would the Tentacles need to be re jammed with a cable after any changes made through app (inc frame rate changes) or once the clocks are jammed the other changes just work?

 

 

I knew you'd ask this, and to be honest, I am not 100% sure. You can certainly change the fps on the fly, even though the Tentacle will warn you to not do this. I did a quick test with my 633 (which can show differences between its internal and an external TC). So after a change from 24 to 25 fps - while the 633 stayed at 24 - the difference display alternates between 0 and 1 fps difference. So I'd say it's still pretty sync. Then I changed the rate on the 633 the and the difference meter showed the same difference as before. So it works, but is not the recommended procedure. 

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22 hours ago, Constantin said:

So after a change from 24 to 25 fps - while the 633 stayed at 24 - the difference display alternates between 0 and 1 fps difference. So I'd say it's still pretty sync.

 

It is probably 100% sync. You can also switch to another format and stay sync. BWF does NOT have timecode, but a timestamp. (48000 samples per second. And a second is a second in all framerates. Calculating that to TC in NDF or 23.976 does give other TC values, but that has nothing to do with sync.)

LTC does have a framerate baked in, but a reader will look at the sync word at  given time, then calculate the TC belonging to that and calculate the timestamps. (Hence LTC lock is way more accurate than one would expect.)

 

Bouke

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