giraffe

Multi camera question

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giraffe   

Hi again!

So, noob question...

are scripted things usually shot with multiple cameras? Or just one?

How, if it is shot with multiple cameras are you gathering audio? Multi boom? (Where they are too far apart) Or is it just, at that point you try and put people in lavs?

Thanks!!

 

 

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giraffe   

So how do you deal with the mic is one camera is close, and the other is taking a wide?
What if they're always doing that?


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Reg   

Offer some chocolates as a bribe to the director to shoot "similar sized" shots simultaneously!

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As Reg says, there are often negotiations that make multi-camera work for sound, but not nearly often enough.  That's why TV sounds like shite these days.  No perspective to the sound; everyone on lavs.  The guy across the room sounds like he's a foot away and like everyone else in the scene.

Gotta say, a couple of seasons of TV was enough to show me that it was time to retire :)  So, so happy now recording sound that almost never has a camera in the area and if it does, what I need to do is always more important to the client.  Mic stand in the shot?  Move the camera!

D.

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giraffe   

Thanks, I'll just do my best to play it by ear, and hope that I'm mostly wrong about the way things are being done.


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Short answer: you get the highest quality sound recording you can that they'll let you do, no matter how many cameras there are.  You look at the scene from a sonic point of view and try to get all the sounds you think an editor might want to cover it in the cut.  Usually that list begins and ends with dialog given the circumstances, but be alive to other sounds, especially unique ones, too.  You will constantly be pushed back by the camera and other depts and will slowly learn what the parameters of the possible are.  And yes, diplomacy is a vital skill.

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mikewest   

Exactly Phil,

Make good friends with the director, the DP and the camera operators.

Make polite comment about situations that make things impossible for good sound.

On the other hand point out situations (sound wise) that offers cameras a chance to do whatever.

Quietly enjoy the moments when there are difficulties regarding lighting compromises and

when one camera operator cannot get the shot he wants!

Tee hee!

mike

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JWBaudio   

Excellent question, and as Douglass pointed out, this is where lavs typically come in, and while very useful, cause modern television to lack a that realism that perspective can bring us.  

Ideally if I get a shot list and see a lot of potential situations where it will be hard to get coverage on all the talking heads with the boom (for instance a lot of mediums or MCUs at the same time as wides), I will push to bring on a second boom/utility sound, unfortunately I'm told more often than not to 'just mic everybody up' (which I try and avoid, but sometimes there's no other way to get the dialogue), then I watch eyes glaze over as I try to explain to production why a second boom is still needed if they want to shoot the way they do.

Unfortunately, since a lot of productions have various limitations or sometimes can't compromise, my typical workaround is sending my boom op both the boom and wires so he can hear how everything is mixing together (this is where a good op comes in), then trying to find a balance between the boom and wire in my stereo mix. Something where boom is providing the main for some ambiance/perspective and the lav is proving just enough presence to be able to hear the lines.

It's nowhere near ideal, but for me it seems to mimic perspective well enough on a project where I know they won't have/take the time in post to cut presence and add perspective on the lav's iso.

So get a second boom if you can, partake in some cross-department diplomacy, try some trickery in the mix, and make a note on your report for post to adjust the iso in post.  That should about cover it, but it's one of those things that I think we're still adjusting to as more and more productions become faster paced, just like more mixers having to make the switch to a wireless boom (but that's a whole different discussion haha!).

If anyone else has a different workaround I would be eager to hear!

JB

 

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giraffe   
Excellent question, and as Douglass pointed out, this is where lavs typically come in, and while very useful, cause modern television to lack a that realism that perspective can bring us.  

Ideally if I get a shot list and see a lot of potential situations where it will be hard to get coverage on all the talking heads with the boom (for instance a lot of mediums or MCUs at the same time as wides), I will push to bring on a second boom/utility sound, unfortunately I'm told more often than not to 'just mic everybody up' (which gets done anyway), then I watch eyes glaze over as I try to explain to production why a second boom is still needed if they want to shoot the way they do.

Unfortunately, since a lot of productions have various limitations or sometimes can't compromise, my typical workaround is sending my boom op both the boom and wires so he can hear how everything is mixing together (this is where a good op comes in), then trying to find a balance between the boom and wire in my stereo mix. Something where boom is providing the main for some ambiance/perspective and the lav is proving just enough presence to be able to hear the lines.

It's nowhere near ideal, but for me it seems to mimic perspective well enough on a project where I know they won't have/take the time in post to cut presence and add perspective on the lav's iso.

So get a second boom if you can, partake in some cross-department diplomacy, try some trickery in the mix, and make a note on your report for post to adjust the iso in post.  That should about cover it, but it's one of those things that I think we're still adjusting to as more and more productions become faster paced, just like more mixers having to make the switch to a wireless boom (but that's a whole different discussion haha!).

If anyone else has a different workaround I would be eager to hear!

JB

 

Amazing response, which mostly reminds me how ignorant I am about this whole process

I own a recording studio, and have a friend that's making micro budget films. Mixed one for him. Sound was terrible, so we agreed that if I bought a small kit (416, sd mixpre, tascam dr-70) he'd pay me to record (and mix) the next one.

So I'm wildly ignorant, and playing catchup.

 

(I got the mix pre, because it can weirdly can be had for less then the mm-1 used)

 

 

 

 

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IronFilm   
On 7/12/2017 at 11:38 AM, giraffe said:

(I got the mix pre, because it can weirdly can be had for less then the mm-1 used)

 

Keep an eye out for the  Shure FP23 ;-) It is identical to the Sound Devices MP-1!

Also, you probably want to get yourself 3x Sony UWP-D11 as well. As there are times when having lavs can really save your ass. Get yourself as well something like an Audix SCX1-HC for when a 416 is not appropriate for indoors. 

Lastly, get yourself a USB powerbank to run your Tascam DR70D (you can velcro the powerbank to the back of the recorder! Is what I did. Then hang the record from your neck using a standard camera neck strap, and clip your wireless TXs to it. Saves needing a proper mixing bag at this starting point of your career), I did the same with my DR60D back when I was just starting out:

http://ironfilm.co.nz/firmware-update-for-tascam-dr-60d-mk1-fixes-recording-interruptions-when-running-on-external-usb-power-packs/

However... if you haven't purchased a DR70D yet, I would very strongly recommend getting a Zoom F4 instead! As is massively more powerful, yet still rather dirt cheap and affordable.

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