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Purchasing 2 mics for film: 8060 w/MZF 8000 & MKH-50?

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I have some lavs, I have a Sound Devices MixPre-D, booms, rycote zeppelin, etc. Looking at upgrading my rag tag audio gear to two solid mics, an outdoor shotgun and an indoor dialogue/interview/spot mic.

 

Was looking at the MKH-416 and MKH-50 vs the newer 8060 and 8050 combo. Thinking of landing on a mix: new 8060 w/MZF8000 capsule for the shotgun, and the classic MKH-50 for my indoor.

 

Wanted to check in here first to get the latest scoop. My research seemed to indicate that the 8050 can be a bit over sensitive to handling noise, etc. and may be better suited for studio use VS location audio, the classic MKH-50 may be the better bet. Re: the classic 416, great sound and industry standard, but a bit outdated compared to the 8060. The MZF capsule seems it would allow the low frequency handling sensitivity or wind sensitivity to be dropped down a bit and really make it a newer 416. One perk of the 8060 is the more forgiving off-axis sounds - I sometimes have to work with inexperienced boom operators for booming outdoor event interviews, and having the sound simply become quieter rather than tinny could be a boon here.

 

Do you think this is a good fit, or should I go classic 416 instead, or go all new with the 8060/8050?

 

Thanks for the help in deciding!

 

[PS - not a big fan of the Sanken sound even though I know the CS3e is well regarded. Schoeps is even more expensive and I prefer the Senn sound very slightly, as well as the robustness of the Senn mics and ability to handle higher humidity for international location travel, etc. The DPA is great, but I like the idea of two matched Senns better].

 

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I have all the mics mentioned. I have an 8050 with mzf and an 8060 with a mzf. I use for reality/doc and commercial work and am very happy with the results. I use my Scheops when the shoot/enviroments are predictable and controlled ( generally narrative work). The Scheops (CMIT5u and CMC641) are def superior and more pleasureable to my ear.

 

I started out with a 416. It's a great mic and in my opinion good to have around as a backup.

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If I had to pick one, do you think the 8060 w/MZF module is the better choice for me (over the 416)?


Do you think the MKH-50 is the better choice for me, over the 8050?

 

Why or why not?

 

Thank you so much!!
 

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8000 series has more options remote cable, swivel and even a digital module amongst other options. Only you can really decide what's better for you.  If you can get a classic 50 and a 416 at a great used price then jump on it. 

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I'm more concerned that the 8060/8050 will be more studio based mics and overly sensitive for on location work, etc. I've read a lot of mixed things on this. Especially the 8050 vs the MKH 50, but maybe with the 8060 too being more sensitive to wind noise or what not. Just want to make sure I'm getting the best recommended on location audio gear, and if the new 8000 series is super unforgiving on the field VS the 416/50 that could be problematic. I'm not sure.

 

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"better" is a very difficult term...

I tested the 8050 vs the 50, expecting go for the 8050 because I generally like smaller and cheaper.

bought the 50 in the end because it was much easier to handle with my clumsy hands, and I'm very happy with the mic.

 

also tested the 416 against the 8060, similar story, got the 416 since I only really use it outdoors and more doc type situations. but I know other people who prefer the 8060.

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The 8060 was too sensitive VS the 416? My thought was the 8060 + MZF 8000 module and low frequency roll-off would make the 8060 an overall better sounding mic outdoors, and the better quality off-axis sound could be a big boon (off axis = quieter VS tinny, easier to fix if a mishap). But if the 8060 is going to be overall more difficult and less forgiving...

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These decisions are rather like choosing between a Porsche and a Jaguar or Maserati. There are differences, to be sure, but no wrong choices. It's an enviable position to be in and, if you later reconsider, you might sell one to purchase the other choice with only a moderate penalty.

 

A few years ago I was faced with a similar choice. I needed to move from the Neumann 140/150 system I was using. They sound great but I had too many difficulties using them with a radio link.

 

I ended up getting a matched set of Sennheiser 8050's and have been very pleased with them. They are sensitive to handling noise and need both a delicate touch from the boom operator and a very good shock mount. But I was working with experienced boom operators so I could rely upon good hands. For a shock mount, I acquired a Rycote Invision with the suitable suspension parts and have not experienced any problems. I understand that the very expensive Cinela is even better but the Invision works very well.

 

If you are doing narrative work, then I think you should not be spooked by the stories of difficult handling. But if you regularly work documentary or reality work, you might be wise to choose the most foolproof rig available. (Always remembering that in a foolproof system, the fool is always bigger than the proof. - Edward Teller)

 

David

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16 hours ago, Glen Deakin said:

8000 series has more options remote cable, swivel and even a digital module amongst other options. Only you can really decide what's better for you.  If you can get a classic 50 and a 416 at a great used price then jump on it. 

 

This...

 

Having a 416 is a great idea for any location sound person. 

 

For me, personally, I have had just about all the mics mentioned, or have at least used them. So have a lot of people here. For those of us with years in the game, we could pretty much have whatever we want mic-wise. I happen to have settled on 2 off the shelf 8060s, 3 50s, a 416 (which I never use but feel good that it's there), and a little DPA 4011C which is genius for low ceilings and for plants. 

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I've used my 416 once in the last few years. That was a few months ago on a hard doc, when a last-minute change sent us from inside to out in the rain with seconds to spare so I grabbed the mic that I least cared about possibly getting wet. 

 

Other 416 owners (who also own other mics): In the last five years, how often have you used your 416? And is it a primary mic, or more of a backup?

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I do think of the 416 as an 'analogue era' mic where it worked very well with some of the limitations of earlier recording formats (i'm not sure i could qualify this). Back then, there were also less radio mics and signal processing for us to play with. I do still use my 416, mainly as a back up and crash mic. These days I usually go out the door with a mkh50 and cs3e but if I had to dig some speech out of a tricky environment (without using a RM) I think it stands up really well perhaps only bettered by something with a DSP. Eg supercmit. Perhaps the 416 has been in way, a victim of its own success, as in it's been so ubiquitous and many cheaper mics (eg. rode) have gone for similar qualities and characteristics. In the UK I think most of the pitch side mics in the football (association football/soccer) are still 416 and many news reporters can be seen handholding 1 like a stick mic probably because once you EQ the bass 'tip-up' you also knock back a heavy background.

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So i've seen this theme repeated even in this thread a bit, but it's hard to get a straight answer (perhaps because that's impossible to give?). But what I gather is:

 

The 8050 is very sensitive and the MKH 50 could be a better choice for location, documentary, live event, less experienced boom op. The quality difference between the 8050 and MKH 50 is negligible and highly based on preference,

 

The 8060 is a bit more sensitive than the 416, but not too much, especially with the MZF 8000. Also, the sound quality is overall much better than the 416 in terms of off-axis rejection. For the same use cases as listed above, the 8060 + MZF 8000 module would be just fine and not raise the same concerns as the 8050 unit.

 

Thus, the best balance would be the 8060 + MZF 8000 and the classic MKH-50?

 

Am I reading this correctly? Or does the 8060, even with module, share the exact same concerns as the 8050?

 

Quality + Fool-proof is where I want to be... but if the 8060 is a much better mic + lower profile, with not much to be concerned with if I add that MZF 8000 module, I'd much rather go with that route for the better off-axis sound and general sound quality (plus lighter/smaller design, newer features). But if it's going to cause as many problems as the 8050 might, then no...

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The amount of time, energy, and hassle that goes into - not to mention expense - is far from ideal for me. I'd rather gather the best info/recommendations here, purchase once with high certainty, and then simply resell/rebuy something if I need to. I'm not super picky about sound, I just need to be sure I'm not making a bonehead move by purchasing an 8060 over a 416, or a 50 over an 8050, for my use case scenarios.

 

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Yeah Rick, that was the post I was quoting from David ;) I am no fool, but if the 8060 w/MZF 8000 is much higher maintenance (or a lot more of a mic suited to controlled studio environment), than the 416 for my uses that could be a problem, but no one has been able to specifically speak into that much -- if the 8060 is as over sensitive as the 8050 vs the MKH-50? Even with MZF capsule?

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Renting to try is to much of a hassle and expense??  Most places would probably let you try for free or at least apply what you spend to test out the mics towards the purchase price.  What someone might suggest that works for them may not work for you. 

 

High maintenance huh????

 

Sorry but there is no real easy answers here.  

 

Btw I use all the mics that your asking about and they are all great no regrets about owning. 

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I carry a MKH8060 as main and 416 as a backup. I prefer the sound of the 8060 and it works a bit better indoors for those quick transitions I often have in my bag gigs. But the 416 is reliable and cheap (ish), so it's good backup.

 

The MKH50 vs 8050 is a much tougher question. In my opinion the added value of the 8050 would be the AES module. But I use CMC6 as hyper as needed so it's a moot for me.

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I want to buy a beautiful painting.  I haven't seen any of them, but I know all about the paintings because I've read every comment available on line.  So, for those of you who have actually seen them, which painting will I like most in my living room?

 

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1 hour ago, John Blankenship said:

I want to buy a beautiful painting.  I haven't seen any of them, but I know all about the paintings because I've read every comment available on line.  So, for those of you who have actually seen them, which painting will I like most in my living room?

 

 

A Picasso... with the MZF capsule.

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Ok, going to put forward something which may seem a bit controversial, but dsc asks for opinions so I'm throwing this 1 into the mix;

Just buy a mkh50, don't worry about the other options. It works beautifully indoors and has enough rejection to work well enough outdoors (on the sort of shots most directors will frame a speaker with). In the context of a noisy environment or an unfriendly wide you're going to be reliant on your RMs anyway. Pick up a used 416 when you get the chance and enjoy the freedoms of multitrack recording, radio mics and automix. When booming 1 handed (because you're mixing/tracking with the other hand) its not so easy to keep a very direction mic in the best place during a dynamic situation, a wider pattern gives you more latitude especially with several talkers. I still take a 'tube' of 1 kind or another with me but generally i stick with the 50 for reasons above.

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