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dsc106

Purchasing 2 mics for film: 8060 w/MZF 8000 & MKH-50?

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13 hours ago, dsc106 said:

The amount of time, energy, and hassle that goes into - not to mention expense - is far from ideal for me.

 

On the other hand, here and elsewhere on the net you've been asking for advice on which mics to get for at least a month, right? And it seems to me you're getting more-or-less the same advice from people. And as Glen and others have suggested, if you're dealing with a good dealer (say, one that specializes in location audio equipment...or at least one with an audio-aware staffer such as Dave Fisk) you can probably apply the rental price to your purchase.

 

Try some different mics, buy what you like, learn to live with and work around their limitations (and bask in the glory of their benefits) and get rolling.  ;-)

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20 odd replies and no great discussion of the mzf or mention of the tacit - I've used neither so far but heard good things about the rycote HPF and intend to get one at some point, whilst the MZF I believe does very little (for the dialogue recordist) and costs a lot: not quite the price of a Picasso sketch, but I would think you might get lucky and find a decent used 416 for not too far off the cost of a new mzf .... 

I still hope, ten years later, Sennheiser will bring out a Production Recordists' model of the HPF, with choices of steeper cuts and perhaps some variation similar to the cuts 1/2 ... another ten years and the concept of an analogue mic input or accessory might be strange, but so far I have no aes42 record channels. I like the pad and hpf on my mkh40 and tend to grab that mikh a lot knowing they're there, although own and use the 80 series as well.

I don't think you'll ever regret owning a 416, or using an mkh50 ... But aes42 is a consideration, and look into the rycote tacit (or Tac:T or something ...) if you haven't already.

J

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lol! 40's wider pattern as I understand can make it a bit more natural sounding indoors and preferable for some indoor booming dialogue, etc. but I think for my on-location uses, the MKH 50 will be a safer, more versatile pick that's overall not as difficult to manage. I'm after two very robust versatile mics that can cover 90% of my needs and 40 seems a bit too specialized and specfic, even if it can give an edge in audio quality for certain scenarios.

 

Re: picasso paintings, art, etc. I'm not that picky with the art of sound, I like the Senn sound in general and it's NOT the minor artistic differences I am interested in. The question is actually incredibly simple and no one has really answered it in a hyper direct way: Is the 8060 as over-sensitive/high maintenance (vs the 416) as the 8050 is (vs the MKH-50). It's really a yes or no question, or perhaps a scale of 1-10 question. Basically I get the vibe that 8050 is better for controlled studio and can introduce problems if not handled perfectly (vs the lower maintenance MKH-50, which seems to be the recommended pick for the most versatile/robust indoor on location audio work), but I don't seem to be getting that stay-away vibe about the 8060 as I do with the 8050? Again, the fool is always bigger than the proof, but having a little extra "proof" in my corner is good for the sometimes uncontrollable situations I may be in.

 

Ignoring slightly artistic preferences in sound, from an engineering POV, it seems the 8060 is a much better sound than the 416 with a better quality of off-axis rejection, and as long as it's not a PIA to handle (like I hear the 8050 can be) I'd prefer that. If it comes recommended to add the MZF 8000 I can do that.

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40 minutes ago, dsc106 said:

lol! 40's wider pattern as I understand can make it a bit more natural sounding indoors and preferable for some indoor booming dialogue, etc. but I think for my on-location uses, the MKH 50 will be a safer, more versatile pick that's overall not as difficult to manage. I'm after two very robust versatile mics that can cover 90% of my needs and 40 seems a bit too specialized and specfic, even if it can give an edge in audio quality for certain scenarios.

 

Re: picasso paintings, art, etc. I'm not that picky with the art of sound, I like the Senn sound in general and it's NOT the minor artistic differences I am interested in. The question is actually incredibly simple and no one has really answered it in a hyper direct way: Is the 8060 as over-sensitive/high maintenance (vs the 416) as the 8050 is (vs the MKH-50). It's really a yes or no question, or perhaps a scale of 1-10 question. Basically I get the vibe that 8050 is better for controlled studio and can introduce problems if not handled perfectly (vs the lower maintenance MKH-50, which seems to be the recommended pick for the most versatile/robust indoor on location audio work), but I don't seem to be getting that stay-away vibe about the 8060 as I do with the 8050? Again, the fool is always bigger than the proof, but having a little extra "proof" in my corner is good for the sometimes uncontrollable situations I may be in.

 

Ignoring slightly artistic preferences in sound, from an engineering POV, it seems the 8060 is a much better sound than the 416 with a better quality of off-axis rejection, and as long as it's not a PIA to handle (like I hear the 8050 can be) I'd prefer that. If it comes recommended to add the MZF 8000 I can do that.

 

I would recommend the mkh 8060 over the mkh 416 because the noise floor is lower and the sound is way more natural than a mkh 416. The mkh 8060 is not as prone to handling noise as the mkh 8040 and 8050. So with a good shockmount that should not be a problem at all.

 

Regarding the sensitivity of the mkh 8050:

 

It depends on the shockmounts you are planning to use. I use cinela mounts and can only recommend them. For indoor use you can use either the cinela minix (without the MZF 8000), which is a very small and lightweight shockmount. If you use the right HPF (40-60hz -18db/oct) you will not have much trouble with handling noise. The downside of this small shockmount is that you can only use a small schoeps B5D or rycote baseball (I prefer the schoeps because I found it to be more transparent), so you can't really move the boompole that fast. But you can of course use the dedicated cinela zephyx 8050 blimp. This one allows you to change quickly from outdoor blimp to and indoor one (a kind of minicx 8000). You can also use the cinela zephyx with the main cover in situation where you need to swing the boompole fast.

If you use the MZF 8000 on the mkh 8050 you can use the Cinela MOD-OSIX-MKH8050 on an osix base. This option is a very "silent option" (no problems with handling noise at all, you will only need a very gentle hpf) and in my opinion gives the same result as a mkh 50 with an osix shockmount (also very good!).

The advantage of this option is that you can use a cinela leo (you can add a fur for outside) which gives better wind noise protection (boompole swings)

 

Another option would be a cinela pianissimo blimp, you can easily modify this blimp to use either with a mkh 8050 or mkh 8060.

 

There is not much difference between the mkh 8050 and the mkh 50. If you like to work with a smaller microphone go for the 8050 and invest in good shockmounts.

 

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terrasound - This is very very helpful, thank you much.


If anyone agrees/seconds this, or disagrees, please speak into!

 

To mirror back: Sounds like the 8060 is a very safe bet over the 416; the 8050 is workable WITH the MZF 8000 *and* a specific shockmount, so the investment goes up, whereas the MKH-50 might be better for working with any sort of gear, requires lower investment, and gives a very similar sound (whereas the 8060 has some quite nice improvements over the 416). So worth it for an 8050 if "done right"... just a lot spendier.

 

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1 hour ago, dsc106 said:

The question is actually incredibly simple and no one has really answered it in a hyper direct way: Is the 8060 as over-sensitive/high maintenance (vs the 416) as the 8050 is (vs the MKH-50).

 

actually I did, but as you just found out different people have different experiences and skills, so there goes your hope for an incredibly simple yes or no question.

 

34 minutes ago, dsc106 said:

If anyone agrees/seconds this, or disagrees, please speak into!

 

sure, we can do this all night : )

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I see that Chris! I apologize to not acknowledging that more. I think I was still wondering primarily because you hadn't mentioned the MZF 8000 in conjunction with the 8060, and how the low frequency cut-off may alleviate that.

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The mkh-50 is also quite prone to handling noise (and wind noise) so you will need a good shockmount and hpf (you can work without a hpf if you have a soft touch) for this one too!

I really like the osix mount (the soft version) with a leo which I preferred over the rycote options that I used. It's shorter and more efficient in reducing handling noise.

But I haven't tried the latest rycote options.

 

 

 

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This thread is getting boring fast. You are asking too many questions. These are things you need to find out for yourself. The mic you use is one of the most important tools to work with. If you're too lazy to rent a few to determine which mic should be yours, you are too lazy for this job. 

If you don't care much about the sound of the mic, but are only interested in the handling noise, then put up an SM58 and be done with it. 

8 hours ago, The Immoral Mr Teas said:

and look into the rycote tacit (or Tac:T or something ...) 

 

Just a little warning: the Tac!t is really bad with rfi. I have not been able to use it with either Lectro HM or Zax 742. haven't tried it with any other wireless and don't know how it handles body packs or nearby phones or whatever, but with those two - horrible. 

May not be relevant to the OP though

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1 hour ago, dsc106 said:

I see that Chris! I apologize to not acknowledging that more. I think I was still wondering primarily because you hadn't mentioned the MZF 8000 in conjunction with the 8060, and how the low frequency cut-off may alleviate that.

 

I tested the tactic and the HPF of the 633, still issues with handling and wind with the 8050 and to a lesser degree the 8060.

obviously this will be much less of an issue for good boom operators and people with a controlled environment or better suspension/wind protection.

not that I don't like to read forums but as constatin says, at some point you'll just have to try and see how things work for you.

chris

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1 hour ago, Constantin said:

This thread is getting boring fast. You are asking too many questions. These are things you need to find out for yourself. The mic you use is one of the most important tools to work with. If you're too lazy to rent a few to determine which mic should be yours, you are too lazy for this job. 

If you don't care much about the sound of the mic, but are only interested in the handling noise, then put up an SM58 and be done with it. 

 

Just a little warning: the Tac!t is really bad with rfi. I have not been able to use it with either Lectro HM or Zax 742. haven't tried it with any other wireless and don't know how it handles body packs or nearby phones or whatever, but with those two - horrible. 

May not be relevant to the OP though

 

 

+1

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Yep. We've all answered you, specifically and generally. 

 

I'll do it again...

 

8060 no problems on pole with Rycote mount. Sounds like a Sennheiser. Durable and reliable. 

 

MKH50 no problems. It's been a standard for a very long time for a very good reason. 

 

Time to buy and move on. 

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