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Matthew Steel

Lectrosonics SMWB coming soon?

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I just got an email from Gotham Sound announcing the SMWB and its sister the SMDWB wide band

transmitters and recorders. Curious to see how they are in the real world.

 

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I am also confused why they chose 44.1. Makes it fairly useless for recording anything for picture sync. I do like the wideband and IR sync. Will pair nicely with the Venue 2 and SRc

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On Monday, October 09, 2017 at 11:17 PM, BAB414 said:

96,000 files per second recorded sounds reasonable
 

 

They would automatically get stitched together within the recorder! ;-)

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Weird indeed to lack any higher sampling rates.

 

Having a split gain option while recording is nice to see.

 

Pity about no TC! Leaves a niche use for the PDR there for some scenarios.

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very excited for these, have been waiting a long time for a sm wideband, purchasing many.....but recorder aspect leaves me scratching my head, was a neat idea if it recorded while transmitting, but either/or tx, no TC and 44.1 makes it unusable in any forseeable scenario...can someone give me an example where this has any purpose? closest i can come up with is corporate meetings for dictation purposes, cant see any usage in our world.....


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very excited for these, have been waiting a long time for a sm wideband, purchasing many.....but recorder aspect leaves me scratching my head, was a neat idea if it recorded while transmitting, but either/or tx, no TC and 44.1 makes it unusable in any forseeable scenario...can someone give me an example where this has any purpose? closest i can come up with is corporate meetings for dictation purposes, cant see any usage in our world.....


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Could adding timecode be possible with a firmware update too? I'm thinking no.

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8 hours ago, ryanpeds said:

I am also confused why they chose 44.1.

The manual confirms my suspicions:

 

"The recorder samples at 44.1kHz rate with a 24 bit sample depth. (the rate was selected due to the required 44.1kHz rate used for the digital hybrid algorithm)."

 

Changing the internal sample rate may not be a simple matter (or it might).

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Not sure why you couldn't jam via the TA5. 

 

The recorder is a a great feature to have even if it's not regularly used.   I do worry a bit about the position of the card slot. That surface tends to get a bit grungy over time. Though it is the best most foolproof spot to secure the card. Maybe a rubber plug to keep it clean when the recorder isn't in use. 

 

Thank you Lectro for listening to all of us who love the SM design.

 

 

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Also, how about some black or dark grey spring clips to go with these. The blue can occasionally be seen through thin fabric. 

 

I know Lectro is partial to that anodized blue but just sayin...

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43 minutes ago, Derek H said:

Derek said,

Not sure why you couldn't jam via the TA5. 

Gordon answers  - Patents.....

43 minutes ago, Derek H said:

 

The recorder is a great feature to have even if it's not regularly used.   I do worry a bit about the position of the card slot. That surface tends to get a bit grungy over time. Though it is the best most foolproof spot to secure the card. Maybe a rubber plug to keep it clean when the recorder isn't in use. 

 

Gordon answers  - There is a rubber plug built into the battery door to seal it with or without card in place to maintain the water resistance and keep that grunge out.  Easily replaced if you knock it out accidentally.

 

Thank you Lectro for listening to all of us who love the SM design.

 

Gordon answers - You're welcome! - good thought on the clip too - black anodizing is no different than blue! 

 

 

 

 

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For big budget narrative, if you had to use the 44.1 kHz recording of one actor in a scene for whatever reason, acting against other actors whose voices were recorded at 48kHz, what are the potential problems that arise? Is it really a deal breaker?

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1 hour ago, Matthew Steel said:

The manual confirms my suspicions:

 

"The recorder samples at 44.1kHz rate with a 24 bit sample depth. (the rate was selected due to the required 44.1kHz rate used for the digital hybrid algorithm)."

 

Changing the internal sample rate may not be a simple matter (or it might).

 

Correct - the Digital Hybrid is sampled at 44.1 - internal conversion was costly from a current (amperage) and a code space point of view.  When I import a 44.1K file into a 48K project into Adobe Premiere, the conversion is quick and simple - I hope it's not a pain in other editing suite platforms - shouldn't be. 

2 hours ago, Glen Deakin said:

For purchase outside of say the US is it setup to do both?

 

Nope - it would be nice but US Patent laws apply to US manufacturers inside or outside the US.  If we were fully located in Tahiti, we would be able to do so - but probably wouldn't because it would cut too much into beach time........

 

Gordon

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I thought there might be a rubber seal of some sort but couldn't tell from the picture. Should have known you're already on top of it. 

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28 minutes ago, Gordonmoore1 said:

 

Correct - the Digital Hybrid is sampled at 44.1 - internal conversion was costly from a current (amperage) and a code space point of view.  When I import a 44.1K file into a 48K project into Adobe Premiere, the conversion is quick and simple - I hope it's not a pain in other editing suite platforms - shouldn't be. 

 

Nope - it would be nice but US Patent laws apply to US manufacturers inside or outside the US.  If we were fully located in Tahiti, we would be able to do so - but probably wouldn't because it would cut too much into beach time........

 

Gordon

Premiere may or not be converting that file to 48k, generally what happens is that the NLE takes whatever format you feed it and converts it on the fly during playback (thus mp4s, mp3s, 44.1 audio etc etc used in edit timelines).  Thus that non-48k file often doesn't exist in any form but the original on the edit system unless it has been rendered to a new file (copy).  This works fine for the picture dept.  The problems start when you want to export the audio to the sound dept. for audio post.  It is generally a very very (very) good idea to make sure that there is NO audio in the project to be exported that is at any sample rate other than 48k.  OMF/AAF exports are very frought enough when everything is done correctly (scrambled imports, lost files, repeating files etc), breaking a bedrock rule from the get-go is not something I want the editor to do.  I spend a lot of time trying to persuade editors to patrol their projects pre-export to make sure they have rendered any non-48k audio to 48k before they export.   I feel like it is incumbent on me as a location soundie to deliver my files at the sample rate post will expect them to be at.  Thus if I used one of these devices I would feel like I should SRC its files to 48k for delivery.  I encourage Lectro to reconsider leaving 48k off this device: Tascam's DR10 series can do 48k, and the DR10L is avail in the USA.

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I have to deal with post sometimes and encurage everybody who has files recorded in 44.1 to convert them to 48khz *before* editing starts!

 

there many programs which do that in batch and keep the same filename, so there's little reason not to do it ( obviously nobody wants to deal with it after a 14h shooting day while doing backups, but editorial has really no excuse)

 

chris

 

ps: thanks for the comments Gordon, and also for the remark about the beach. I feel in these times it's nice to have a bit of light hearted humour rather then taking everything so grim.

 

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5 hours ago, Philip Perkins said:

I encourage Lectro to reconsider leaving 48k off this device: Tascam's DR10 series can do 48k, and the DR10L is avail in the USA.

 

But the DR10 doesn't have a high class transmitter built in. I am sure that Gordon's explanation is true and there is not really any point in asking Lectro to reconsider. They probably did lots of considering before the release and that's what they found they could do. 

 

Something else to consider for us: since this is a recording transmitter that either records or transmits, but never simultaneously, how often do you see yourself using the non-TC sync recorder? 

For me the answer would be: almost never. On those rare instances in which I do use it, I wouldn't mind five minutes extra time to SRC my files - or file more likely

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The beauty of it is, if we find a way to change the rate, or any other improvements in firmware for that matter, you will be able to download the file from our website to a micro SD and update all your units without sending anything back to the dealer or factory.  Additionally, there will be no USB driver issues or cables or even having the computer present once the card is loaded.  That's why we went this way - the micro USB Port took up just about the same amount of board space and then we would have all those weird USB issues and the need for an update program.  The SD card simply made better sense.  Once we had the card.......

 

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Maybe, since you saidon that the 48k rate would be eating up the battery faster (and did not say that it was impossible), one way to achieve this would be by adding a command to the menu which says something like: "convert files to 48k now", which then does just that. This could happen at the end of the shoot day, while packing up for example. A new battery could even be loaded just for this, but it would happen on demand only, so would need battery power when in critical operation, and would also save time at the end of a long day, when no one really wants to get out a laptop and start loading and converting files...

 

37 minutes ago, Gordonmoore1 said:

The beauty of it is, if we find a way to change the rate, or any other improvements in firmware for that matter, you will be able to download the file from our website to a micro SD and update all your units

 

 

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7 hours ago, Gordonmoore1 said:

Gordon answers  - Patents.....


Really?? But lots of people already use a single input/output for both audio and TC. (such as Tentacle Syncs)

7 hours ago, Gordonmoore1 said:

Correct - the Digital Hybrid is sampled at 44.1 - internal conversion was costly from a current (amperage) and a code space point of view.  When I import a 44.1K file into a 48K project into Adobe Premiere, the conversion is quick and simple - I hope it's not a pain in other editing suite platforms - shouldn't be. 


Wonder why the Digital Hybrid couldn't simply sample at 48KHz so that no conversion at all is needed?

18 minutes ago, Constantin said:

Maybe, since you saidon that the 48k rate would be eating up the battery faster (and did not say that it was impossible), one way to achieve this would be by adding a command to the menu which says something like: "convert files to 48k now", which then does just that. This could happen at the end of the shoot day, while packing up for example. A new battery could even be loaded just for this, but it would happen on demand only, so would need battery power when in critical operation, and would also save time at the end of a long day, when no one really wants to get out a laptop and start loading and converting files...

 


Genius idea! Best of both worlds: saves on battery life, and makes post workflow easier. 

56 minutes ago, Gordonmoore1 said:

That's why we went this way - the micro USB Port took up just about the same amount of board space and then we would have all those weird USB issues and the need for an update program.  The SD card simply made better sense.  Once we had the card.......


ah ha! Very smart. 

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