Jump to content
Matthew Steel

Lectrosonics SMWB coming soon?

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

Really?? But lots of people already use a single input/output for both audio and TC. (such as Tentacle Syncs)

 

I think Gordon didn't mean the TA5 in particular but some other combination of wireless/recording/TC. details hardly matter because it will lead into an unpleasant discussion of lots of opinions. enough to say that for whatever reason, at the moment in the US you're stuck with zaxcom if you need wireless with TC backup recording.

 

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

Wonder why the Digital Hybrid couldn't simply sample at 48KHz so that no conversion at all is needed?

 

the tricky work here is "simply" -- engineering is a tradeoff business, you sample at 48khz, you loose on other stuff (i guess battery live, bandwith etc). 

 

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

Genius idea! Best of both worlds: saves on battery life, and makes post workflow easier. 

 

personally I find this a pretty terrible idea - I'd rather record natively (44.1) and backup that and have editorial convert it to 48khz then do it at the end of a long shooting blind in a small fiddly unit hoping there's enough battery and space on the card left to finish the conversion and not corrupt any files....

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do try to make the thing record @ 48k, with an update etc..  I'd live with less battery life (when the thing is recording and not transmitting) and slightly smaller card capacity.   We don't need more workarounds.  Delivering 44.1k files on an otherwise 48k job (audio files and audio on camera files) is asking for trouble.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As far as sound quality goes, obviously lower sample rate means less data but for on-set dialogue, what would really be missed by recording at 44.1? Anything discernible?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, BAB414 said:

As far as sound quality goes, obviously lower sample rate means less data but for on-set dialogue, what would really be missed by recording at 44.1? Anything discernible?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
 

I can't imagine 44.1 vs 48khz being discernible?  I guess the jury is out till someone demo's it but 24bit/44.1khz audio sounds great so much so that a lot of music studios still record at that exact rate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I can't imagine 44.1 vs 48khz being discernible?  I guess the jury is out till someone demo's it but 24bit/44.1khz audio sounds great so much so that a lot of music studios still record at that exact rate.
Thanks for the info. That's kind of what I was expecting to hear.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, BAB414 said:

As far as sound quality goes, obviously lower sample rate means less data but for on-set dialogue, what would really be missed by recording at 44.1? Anything discernible?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
 

 

The argument is about sticking to post production standards, and the risk of handing in work that doesn't match with your master recorder files.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
The argument is about sticking to post production standards, and the risk of handing in work that doesn't match with your master recorder files.
Of course. SRC is the answer there.

I'm talking purely about sound quality. I was wondering if a file recorded at 44.1, correctly resampled to 48, would or could pose any problems down the line. I was curious if anything aesthetic was lost. If not, then the 44.1 doesn't seem like a deal breaker to me, so long as I can SRC.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, BAB414 said:

Thanks for the info. That's kind of what I was expecting to hear.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
 

My $0.02 of the whole thing is that you have to figure that if you are in a situation where you are choosing to record to the body pack rather than transmit wirelessly, I'd imagine that's a "we just need to get whatever we can get" kind of situation?  On the Zaxcom I get that it's a great "backup" but with these transmit OR record packs, clearly it's not just a "backup" kind of situation.  Lectro was showing off the PDR's with a guy going down a hill on a mountain bike where you wouldn't be able to have range for a wireless pack.  These kind of extreme scenarios probably at least half the time are where you just want to get any sort of discernible sound!

 

I do a little bit of post sound for documentaries and we convert 44.1khz music tracks to conform to our 48khz timelines all the time.  I've never encountered anything odd from it but I highly suggest NOT telling that to an audiophile as they might try to sell you a $13,500 power strip after cussing you out for using SRC...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, chrismedr said:

personally I find this a pretty terrible idea - I'd rather record natively (44.1) and backup that and have editorial convert it to 48khz then do it at the end of a long shooting blind in a small fiddly unit hoping there's enough battery and space on the card left to finish the conversion and not corrupt any files....

 


Easy enough to swap in fresh batteries, and easy enough to use large cards, and I'd much rather have it done automatically on set than trust post to handle a mix of 44.1KHz & 48KHz files correctly. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, IronFilm said:


Easy enough to swap in fresh batteries, and easy enough to use large cards, and I'd much rather have it done automatically on set than trust post to handle a mix of 44.1KHz & 48KHz files correctly. 

Protools ( and I imagine pretty much all audio post software ) has settings to convert all ingested files to same sample rate/bit depth automatically and/or supports mixed formats anyways - it's kinda a non-issue if you ask me

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You won't hear any diff in audio quality between 44.1 and 48k, esp for normal location sound.  Sound quality isn't the issue.  The issue is handing the loaded gun of non-standard sample rate audio to the picture dept, who can merrily use it without having any idea that it isn't 48k, and then the error gets paid forward to the audio post people who then get a problematic and /or incomplete export due to there being non-48k audio files in the edit timeline.  It is unlikely that by the time the export occurs (esp on a large project) that anyone involved will remember that those files from this new device are @ 44.1, which may require in a lot of detective work to discover what is missing or screwed up in the export and why.  Please do not encourage editors to injest non-48k audio!!!  Sorry to be cranky but I deal with exactly this issue on nearly every film I mix anymore!

Just now, jozzafunk said:

Protools ( and I imagine pretty much all audio post software ) has settings to convert all ingested files to same sample rate/bit depth automatically and/or supports mixed formats anyways - it's kinda a non-issue if you ask me

There are still many complaints about exports from Premiere to PT et al that are often traceable to this issue.  It is not a non-issue, or at least not yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Philip Perkins said:

You won't hear any diff in audio quality between 44.1 and 48k, esp for normal location sound.  Sound quality isn't the issue.  The issue is handing the loaded gun of non-standard sample rate audio to the picture dept, who can merrily use it without having any idea that it isn't 48k, and then the error gets paid forward to the audio post people who then get a problematic and /or incomplete export due to there being non-48k audio files in the edit timeline.  It is unlikely that by the time the export occurs (esp on a large project) that anyone involved will remember that those files from this new device are @ 44.1, which may require in a lot of detective work to discover what is missing or screwed up in the export and why.  Please do not encourage editors to injest non-48k audio!!!  Sorry to be cranky but I deal with exactly this issue on nearly every film I mix anymore!

oh there we go - I'll defer to Phil on this one - I've got a few complaints about premiere pro exports myself!

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jozzafunk said:

I've got a few complaints about premiere pro exports myself!


On a related point, when on earth is premiere going to start supporting aux TC? Even DaVinci Resolve for goodness sake has been supporting this for a while now!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, chrismedr said:

personally I find this a pretty terrible idea - I'd rather record natively (44.1) and backup that and have editorial convert it to 48khz then do it at the end of a long shooting blind in a small fiddly unit hoping there's enough battery and space on the card left to finish the conversion and not corrupt any files....

 

But you have the choice, just don't choose that menu item if you don't want to and leave it for post to do

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What we really need is a receiver that records. So the talent wears the wideband transmitter which legally cannot record, but they're ALSO wearing a receiver, that can record. You don't get dropouts because the receiver is so close, and you're still receiving it at your cart. It's win-win. And for redundancy, put a Zoom H4n in their other pocket, hardlined to the receiver, so you're recording a clean backup, but make sure to connect a comtek transmitter to the Zoom's headphone jack so they can hear at village.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, BAB414 said:

What we really need is a receiver that records. So the talent wears the wideband transmitter which legally cannot record, but they're ALSO wearing a receiver, that can record. You don't get dropouts because the receiver is so close, and you're still receiving it at your cart. It's win-win. And for redundancy, put a Zoom H4n in their other pocket, hardlined to the receiver, so you're recording a clean backup, but make sure to connect a comtek transmitter to the Zoom's headphone jack so they can hear at village.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
 

 

Or they could add an aux output to the tx. Then you could add the recorder of your choice...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Constantin said:

 

Or they could add an aux output to the tx. Then you could add the recorder of your choice...

A Tascam DR10-C is a tiny-recorder with a pass-thru to connect to a TX.  It works very well, for having to have 2 devices on the talent.  I figured out a 2-strap ankle rig for this that worked pretty well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Constantin said:

 

Or they could add an aux output to the tx. Then you could add the recorder of your choice...

This is just a reverse of using a PDR output to a transmitter... correct...  People could always do that... but ...you will need a few PDRs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, afewmoreyears said:

This is just a reverse of using a PDR output to a transmitter... correct...  People could always do that... but ...you will need a few PDRs

 

Or yes, of course, that'd be much simpler. Well, for those who do need recording and transmitting on talent, I think they should use Zaxcom gear

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Zaxcom made a transmitter with the potato gun-proof build quality of a Lectro transmitter, I would agree with that..

 

(google "lectrosonics potato gun" if this is a cryptic statement...)

 

Cheers,

Brent Calkin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Freeheel said:

If Zaxcom made a transmitter with the potato gun-proof build quality of a Lectro transmitter, I would agree with that..

 

(google "lectrosonics potato gun" if this is a cryptic statement...)

 

Cheers,

Brent Calkin

 

If you absolutely need the recording transmitter for whatever valid reason, then on those occasions a Zaxcom trx will do just fine. It's not like they fall apart just from picking them up

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am sure that after 5 years of continuous use on professional football players our mechanical stability more than excceeds the requirements of a staged publicity stunt with a potato and a card board box.

 

Glenn 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Constantin said:

Or they could add an aux output to the tx. Then you could add the recorder of your choice...

 

8 hours ago, Philip Perkins said:

A Tascam DR10-C is a tiny-recorder with a pass-thru to connect to a TX.  It works very well, for having to have 2 devices on the talent.  I figured out a 2-strap ankle rig for this that worked pretty well.


Good ideas Constantin/Philip, except..... Zaxcom lawyers once again get in the way of that!!

That is why the Tascam DR10C can't be sold in the USA, and instead they sell the Tascam DR10L (which lacks the output option on it). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Glenn

 

My standards are a little more stringent than a waterproofed, well padded and careful placement on a football player.

 

My Lectro MM400's have been put on surfers, kayakers, sky divers, and fallen 90 feet out of trees onto rocks. They are 10 years old and have never failed.  They are like little armoured tanks.

 

If I dropped one into a bucket of sea water and threw it at a concrete wall, it would likely survive just fine.  

 

My TRX LA2's, I keep in a cloth protective bag so their plastic won't get scratched.  And I know exactly how long they would last if dropped in salt water.  

 

So, I'd rather not argue with you about how durable Zax transmitters are.  I would make a polite request for you to design one that can compete physically with a Lectro Tx- after all, the recording function is most useful when the subject is out of radio range- like those surfers, kayakers, and sky divers often were.  If Zaxcom is going to be the only company with a recording wireless, it would be great if you guys made one that's up to the challenge of the conditions where it's recording functions are most needed.   

 

Cheers,

Brent Calkin 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×