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Alex Mitchell

Recording applause in Germany - Advice

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Hey everyone,

 

I've been contracted out on an art project to record some applause in a concert hall in Germany--specifically in the city of Marl. We will honestly only be recording for one or two days, so I figured it'd be cheaper for the client to rent equipment over there rather than secure a Carnet and have extra baggage on the flight. Two questions:

 

1. Does anyone know of a good equipment rental house in Germany that I can speak to?

2. Most of the time I record production dialogue, not foley, so I'm wondering if anyone can give me feedback on a potential set up. For this session I was thinking of renting a 633, two MKH-50s and a 416. 

- MKH-50s on both edges of the stage getting LR.

- MKH-416 in the centre on a high stand, reaching to the back of the room.

 

Thanks for any help you guys can give. :)

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Zeigermann_Audio in Hamburg,

Kortwich in Berlin.

I am missing an aquivalent in Cologne,

since this is closer to Marl.

Maybe someone can chip in on this.

 

I'd rather record it with 3 MKH 50's,

or even 40's.

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I record a lot of audience reaction stuff on the jobs I do - the one rule is you always need more 'air' between you and the closest audience members than you'd think. Otherwise you'll have identifiable single clappers in the foreground. Also, steer clear of Coincident stereo mic techniques for most uses - spread either side of stage gives a much less coherent sound which is more useful to post - especially if they want to put it in Surrounds. If this is a sound-for picture project where you can see the audience in shot, and if you can get a 4-preamp recorder, I'd go for a very tall stand on each side of stage, with a Hyper (like the MKH50 you suggest) covering the near-half of the crowd, and a shotgun covering the rear half of the crowd, both on the same stand (I use a very short Stereo bar for each side). If you want the more diffuse (polite) applause popular with Classical Music recordists, a wide spaced Omni pair would give you that sound, but still up at least 3m. If you have the venue to yourself simply to do "Applause Group" FX, many venues like you describe will have a bar or winch lines over the front of the stage suitable for mic rigging, too.

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Zeigermann will get you everything if you let them a little time!

 

You can also search for a rental house in the Netherlands that may be located closer to Marl than Hamburg. Don't care about the border - it's EU.

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Although cross-border rental is different. In Cologne you may find that Atelier Screen TV 

http://www.screentv.de/index.php?page=shop.browse&root=b2314daff2685e8f3adc891ef9dc71c1&category_id=506915e9a73c8cb78eac308e55b5a3de&option=com_phpshop&Itemid=1

 

may have what you are looking for. You need to ask them as they don't have everything on their site.

also, the camera rentals in Cologne often have audio, too. 

Such as:

http://www.ludwig-kamera.de/verleih/tontechnik.html

 

http://www.camcar.de/mieten/78/Mikrofone

 

Camcar also have an office in Duesseldorf which is even closer to Marl. 

 

 

 

 

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3 pairs....

 

1st pair, spaced, omni - low and quite near the front row - they get they crisp, cracky, start of each round (of applause).

2nd pair. cardioid, or similar, probably wider, looking at middle of room -these will be key.

3rd pair, maybe more gunny - higher, looking at back of room - lovely 'body'.

 

If you have the money, and if they want surround... omni, set up probably hung above the rear of the hall, well spaced. They get the later, more surroundy stuff.

Good audience makes the gig ;-)

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On 7 September 2017 at 11:34 PM, Alex Mitchell said:

 

- MKH-50s on both edges of the stage getting LR.

- MKH-416 in the centre on a high stand, reaching to the back of the room.

 

Thanks for any help you guys can give. :)

 

2 hours ago, Bash said:

3 pairs....

 

1st pair, spaced, omni - low and quite near the front row - they get they crisp, cracky, start of each round (of applause).

2nd pair. cardioid, or similar, probably wider, looking at middle of room -these will be key.

3rd pair, maybe more gunny - higher, looking at back of room - lovely 'body'.

 

If you have the money, and if they want surround... omni, set up probably hung above the rear of the hall, well spaced. They get the later, more surroundy stuff.

Good audience makes the gig ;-)

 

1 hour ago, ramallo said:

One mic, a Soundfield

 

Right, I held off firstly because I had no idea of the job, the size or type of audience or reason or whatever. Secondly, I had no idea whether the 3 mic plan Alex had was intended as LCR or to combine to LR. And I still don't.

Thirdly, because Nick pretty much summed up everything I had to say so well.

 

Now, I have unexpected time on my hands as after a day of flooding, plummer out, unexpectedly attending an RTS (Royal TV Society) meeting, a few beers ... And now the TV doesn't work so I'm pressing ON OFF every few such and so's and happily typing this between clicks.

 

So here's my take, based on Bruel & Kjaer / DPA experience:

Three omni, spaced minimum 'Decca' but let's go as wide as you can - so several metres apart. If LCR then random incident nose cones. If a LR sum from 3 mics then either the above or free-field panned LR (for the specifics Nick was warning against) with a random incident centre to smooth the specific detail. Hung high enough to get the auditorium ambience and minimise the irritating individuals.

 

Nick's comments are very much worth studying. Simon's suggestions too, obviously based on experience. And at the end of the day, because it's for ART, Ramallo might be right ... a simple solution which always impresses ... Ambisonics ... phase as far as you can throw ... ?

 

Damn telly still not working - occasional sound but no picture as yet! Could be an early night. Going to see Mel Brooks' 'Young Frankenstein' tomorrow, last night pre West End run. Looking forward to an afternoon in the theatre!

 

Jez

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I have recorded a lot of applause in theaters and connect halls,  I really like the sound of Boundary Layer Microphones like the Schoeps  BLMs

 

Having space from the close audience is critical to avoid some claps from sounding to close.

 

I have taped or put on stands BLMs high in the front and on the sides of a venue. with good effect.

 

If the project if for a surround mix 5.1, 7.1 Atmos etc...   I recommend having two or three mic placements from front to back of hall,  Post production mixers can give a nice movement to the sound as it swells from the front to the back of the sound field.

 

 

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