13324 Posted September 10, 2017 Report Share Posted September 10, 2017 This topic has been deleted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronmac Posted September 10, 2017 Report Share Posted September 10, 2017 Have you removed the windscreen to make it less bulky? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Reineke Posted September 11, 2017 Report Share Posted September 11, 2017 The ME2 doesn't sound very good out in the open. Likely unintelligible under clothing, then there's the inevitable rubbing noise from that POS. Maybe ok to sync the CU boom takes.. but the client probably doesn't have the budget for that either. FYI, there were two versions of the ME2, the earlier version looked similar to the cardioid ME4. The later version, had the typical oil can shape and a better clip system. Neither are worth spit IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungo Posted September 11, 2017 Report Share Posted September 11, 2017 I muss admit that I never had success hiding an ME2. Additionally to the size that mike is pretty vulnerable to rustling noise. You can try putting it into a furry windjammer like Bubblebee. That's an option for thick clothes of course. Advantage of ME2 is that it has loads of output level. Preamp noise won't bei a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel Posted September 11, 2017 Report Share Posted September 11, 2017 Make an 'RM-11' style holder for it from sugru or tape? I've done similar for DPA with self-amalgamating tape. Use a cylinder of something with same diameter (if you have the 6.5mm version this could be 1/4" HP jack), a method of 'releasing' it and shape material to your needs. Good practice if a little wasted on the ME2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted September 11, 2017 Report Share Posted September 11, 2017 The Rycote Overcovers are the best for eliminating clothing noise or wind noise when used outside clothing. The ME 2's size makes it difficult to hide under clothing. I don't understand how a $15-$20 lav rental is going to make them go over budget or go broke. Hope you're getting paid fairly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNinja Posted September 12, 2017 Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 Did you try going to skin?Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonG Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 I never had trouble using a typical mole skin sandwich. Just keep trying, you'll figure out a technique that works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Pullmer Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 I'd push to rent COS11s wired for G3s from a local rental house. For $10-15/day you'll be a happy camper! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Waelder Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 This has been an interesting discussion but, I think, largely irrelevant to making movies. Probably you (the OP) and everyone making suggestions has seen the movie Bull Durham. As you will recall, the characters played by Kevin Kostner and Susan Sarandon both took active roles in preparing Tim Robbins' talented but erratic pitcher for better things in the majors. Sarandon has him wearing ladies' underwear beneath his team uniform. Of course, frilly underwear doesn't confer any advantage but it does distract an overactive mind so the pitcher can work from muscle memory. Trying to find strategies to conceal a clumsy microphone choice may serve the same end. One is engaged in making active preparation to perform sound recording responsibilities in a situation where real preparation, given the limits of equipment and budget, is probably impossible. A single radio transmitter/receiver set is only minimally useful on a dramatic film. Except for the occasional Shakespearean soliloquy, dialog in films involves at least two players. A single radio set is not really useful to record two or three people. It may have some utility as a plant mike but that's a different concealment issue and the present microphone may be entirely fine. I think you need to tell the director that, except for a few special situations, you will be working only with the boom microphone. If sound cannot be successfully recorded with that rig, he will need to cover the scene in close-ups or medium shots. If that doesn't work for him, he will need to resign himself (herself?) to the necessity of looping. This is not something to lament or be anxious about. Many fine films have been recorded with a single boom microphone. Moreover, by focusing attention on that approach and not wasting time and energy on halfway radio measures, production can proceed efficiently. With limited resources, it is a perfectly reasonable way to make a movie. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Feeley Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 On 9/11/2017 at 4:27 PM, Daniel Ignacio said: I’ve been trying to make it absolutely clear to the director that he will not get great sound with this lav, and that I need more time to rig it. The bummer is the director, producer, editor, audience, et al are more likely to think "Daniel recorded crappy sound" rather than "our budget really screwed up Daniel's work." Finding a better lav to rent would be nice... Though I wonder how hard it would be to find a good rental lav wired for G3. Maybe see if you can find a quality used lav wired for G3 (or that the seller can wire...). Or solid Countryman, TRAM, maybe even Oscar SoundTech. Or like David suggests, try to not use that G3. Ya, spending uncompensated money sucks, but turing in poor work and possibly having your reputation tarnished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 If the G3 is yours, buy a better capsule for it - when you upgrade the wireless you get another plug put on the end. If the G3 is their's, recommend with the current capsule, it may be useful for a 'guide track' (for looping) but wont cut well with the vastly superior sound of the 8060 (like cutting between picture from an S4/Alexa combo and an iphone 4) and therefore they'll need sensible 'coverage' of all dialogue. If they've spent a lot (all) of their (low) budget on tracking, gimbals, jibs, cranes, multi cameras etc (and fully on board with their DOPs 'vision' for the project :-), they may feel encumbered or restrained by the need to have all dialogue covered in boom-able shots (if the DOP has done any scripted drama, maybe they speak up for you at this point ). At the end of the day, the only reason we have radio mics is to work with difficult shots, locations and shooting styles in the hope of saving production the expense of looping later. Put in your disclaimer gently and let them get on with it. And whatever you do, don't let the wire get damaged within a couple of feet of the capsule or they will have to replace it (whether they like it or not). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted September 16, 2017 Report Share Posted September 16, 2017 On 9/15/2017 at 8:37 PM, daniel said: And whatever you do, don't let the wire get damaged within a couple of feet of the capsule or they will have to replace it (whether they like it or not). ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manuelchk Posted September 17, 2017 Report Share Posted September 17, 2017 Your sound is gonna be shit and you're gonna be remembered as the shitty sound mixer. Just tell them that's a piece of crap and you don't mix that. Just boom.Make them learn that sound is important and needs some budget.If he says he loves the ME2 you're just telling us how ignorant is that person... You Tell him how to do sound, not the other way around.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismedr Posted September 17, 2017 Report Share Posted September 17, 2017 8 hours ago, manuelchk said: If he says he loves the ME2 you're just telling us how ignorant is that person... You Tell him how to do sound, not the other way around. yeah, tell him that, I'm sure that's a great way to keep a client happy ;-)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen Deakin Posted September 17, 2017 Report Share Posted September 17, 2017 What would happen if the mic accidentally got broken? Accidentally... But seriously they will fail at the worst possible time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edward chick Posted September 17, 2017 Report Share Posted September 17, 2017 Just mic 'em and be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel Posted September 17, 2017 Report Share Posted September 17, 2017 Strategically, you could try to get camera and wardrobe departments onside for a better lav. If you're OMBing it wont be easy adjusting lav placement, getting something to sound good enough and not show will need some co-operation form wardrobe, if not hands on assistance. You could say the whole thing comes down to camera and wardrobe, as in 1 necessitates the use of lavs and the other makes it tricky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikewest Posted September 18, 2017 Report Share Posted September 18, 2017 It should be possible to rent a TRAM for the shoot or even buy a used one as they are not expensive. Remember we are trying to protect your reputation and your future. I guess you are you recording a drama and not a "videography" style shoot. I have used Sennheiser lavs when I bought into their expensive radio mikes and used them for feature films stuck on the inside edge of a hem for example, but it's not guaranteed to get the best result! Maybe show the director some of our posts and always "argue" on the basis that you are trying to do your best for the production. Good luck mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Immoral Mr Teas Posted September 21, 2017 Report Share Posted September 21, 2017 On 17 September 2017 at 7:54 PM, Daniel Ignacio said: We have no wardrobe department, my similarly-named friend. A low-budget shoot, so I won’t be seeing outfits until Day 1. Camera department is one DP, and he’s the director’s friend. Though he seems nice enough that I can get him to fight for more coverage for me. Daniel, from a quick look at the latest posts I would say look again to the posts of Dan and Mike. You are doing a low budget shoot which should be an OPPORTUNITY to communicate and work with Wardrobe (especially), Make-Up, Camera Dept and Production Design for ALL parties to learn from each other and get a better result from minimal resources. I posted a (good) low budget shoot fairly recently which my friend (the composer, director's friend) got me on to. Low budget, extended shoot, when possible, with three distinct sound recordists available when they were. Each recordist had a different style or workflow, so the tracks were different, but that was OK- they all did a pretty good job (often a vg job) to cope with their circumstances. What was a MAJOR issue for sound was that one of the two principles had an 'unmikable' noisy dress which (in a low budget scenario) SHOULD have been addressed BY SOUND beforehand. It wouldn't have mattered if it was a DPA 4060/1, COS 11 or whatever: the fault was in the preproduction - make the most use of preproduction in your 'low budget' status. Everybody learns. Talk to the director, get the phone numbers of the folks doing costume, makeup, figuring locations or doing sets - and make friends all around. In post we know how hard it is to shoot. It's hard in post too. It's only upsetting when we recognise when some major issue might have been avoided, such as "I won't be seeing outfits before Day 1" ... why the hell not? Have you seen a script? Sorry for being an ass ... Best, Jez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted September 22, 2017 Report Share Posted September 22, 2017 I have to say... it's all nice to say talk to costume before the shoot, but in my experience - and I make it a point to always call the costume designer beforehand - the success of this is pretty minimal. In 90% the reply I get is either: "I've been doing this long enough to know what sound needs" or "sorry I don't know what the costume will be until the shoot actually begins". When I get the first reply it will almost invariably result in at least one costume which is un-lavable. In the second case, they tend to consult me, but only to inform really, of what the costume is going to be. The other 10% are willing to work with me and helpful, but I don't know how much they'll actually change the costume because of my request. On low budget shoots it's often even worse as the costume designer often actually designed and made the costume and will have been working on them for a long time, so a call a few weeks before won't change much. But there are notable exceptions, of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel Posted September 22, 2017 Report Share Posted September 22, 2017 1 hour ago, Constantin said: I have to say... it's all nice to say talk to costume before the shoot, but in my experience - and I make it a point to always call the costume designer beforehand - the success of this is pretty minimal. In 90% the reply I get is either: "I've been doing this long enough to know what sound needs" or "sorry I don't know what the costume will be until the shoot actually begins". When I get the first reply it will almost invariably result in at least one costume which is un-lavable. In the second case, they tend to consult me, but only to inform really, of what the costume is going to be. The other 10% are willing to work with me and helpful, but I don't know how much they'll actually change the costume because of my request. On low budget shoots it's often even worse as the costume designer often actually designed and made the costume and will have been working on them for a long time, so a call a few weeks before won't change much. But there are notable exceptions, of course Agreed, you wont get to change much of what wardrobe will do but it's helpful to be forewarned of how you might try to hide belt pack and mic. Make contact as soon as you can but get the details/pics towards the end of pre production (or in the days running up to the scene) as things change on the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Reineke Posted September 24, 2017 Report Share Posted September 24, 2017 "the director hasn’t made himself available until now to allow me to demonstrate the ME 2’s shortcomings. > Without an A-B demo, I doubt you'll get anywhere. Some directors just don't care about sound at all. "we’re in a rural area – lesser chance for environmental noise." > Rural locations often have undesirable sounds as well. I was on a shoot in a remote region of Adirondack State Park... which had an active military air base ten or so miles away (next-door for jet aircraft). The scout report never mentioned this or there was little activity when they visited. Then there's the usual commercial and private aircraft to contend with along with unwanted birds, insects and environmental annoyances. Don't assume "rural" is going to be w/o issues. I hope it works out for you anyway, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanpeds Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 I'm working on a show right now that has been rather nightmarish for lavs. First wardrobe Dept quit or was fired less than a week before we started after I had already talked to them and they were going to be great to work with. No one told me this had happened and I showed up on set the first day very surprised at the wardrobe (not lav friendly) with no on set wardrobe because they hadn't found a replacement yet. My first encounter with the costumer Designer was not a good as she told me that she was from the "indie film world" and that she didn't care about sound I guess. Needless to say the wardrobe or lack thereof has made it extremely difficult to wire actors. As constantin said above success is minimal in getting wardrobe to change anything. You basically have to get lucky and get a costume designer that does care and is willing to help sound out. Doesn't matter the size of the show or the budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikewest Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 I recorded an American show some years ago set on a snow covered mountain. I had a brief meeting with the producer and director before hand and warned them that outdoor clothing was usually pretty noisy for lavs so wardrobe dept should be aware I traveled to location some weeks later to find noisy outdoor clothing and.......... when we start shooting "oh dear" we can see the boom in the ski goggles !!!!!! mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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