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Daniel Ignacio

How to hide a Sennheiser ME 2 on talent

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It should be possible to rent a TRAM for the shoot or even buy a used one as they are not expensive.

Remember we are trying to protect your reputation and your future.

I guess you are you recording a drama and not a "videography" style shoot.

I have used Sennheiser lavs when I bought into their expensive radio mikes

and used them for feature films stuck on the inside edge of a hem for example,

but it's not guaranteed to get the best result!

Maybe show the director some of our posts and always "argue" on the basis

that you are trying to do your best for the production.

Good luck

 

mike

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On 9/17/2017 at 10:23 PM, mikewest said:

It should be possible to rent a TRAM for the shoot or even buy a used one as they are not expensive.

Remember we are trying to protect your reputation and your future.

I guess you are you recording a drama and not a "videography" style shoot.

I have used Sennheiser lavs when I bought into their expensive radio mikes

and used them for feature films stuck on the inside edge of a hem for example,

but it's not guaranteed to get the best result!

Maybe show the director some of our posts and always "argue" on the basis

that you are trying to do your best for the production.

Good luck

 

mike

 

Thanks for the guidance, Mike. I’m hoping to demonstrate to the director how his mic is not suitable at our upcoming meeting, and ask him about if he has budget/time for ADR. If that doesn’t convince him to rent a lav, I’ll tell him that I will need more coverage for the boom, and that I’ll opt not to roll the lav track when problematic. And if he still wants me rolling the lav all the time, then I might just show up to set with a rented COS-11.

 

I wholeheartedly agree with protecting my reputation, but at the same time, I don’t want to make it seem easy to get a lav out of me without some consideration and/or compensation beforehand.

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On 17 September 2017 at 7:54 PM, Daniel Ignacio said:

We have no wardrobe department, my similarly-named friend. A low-budget shoot, so I won’t be seeing outfits until Day 1. Camera department is one DP, and he’s the director’s friend. Though he seems nice enough that I can get him to fight for more coverage for me.

 

Daniel, from a quick look at the latest posts I would say look again to the posts of Dan and Mike. You are doing a low budget shoot which should be an OPPORTUNITY to communicate and work with Wardrobe (especially), Make-Up, Camera Dept and Production Design for ALL parties to learn from each other and get a better result from minimal resources.

 

I posted a (good) low budget shoot fairly recently which my friend (the composer, director's friend) got me on to. Low budget, extended shoot, when possible, with three distinct sound recordists available when they were. Each recordist had a different style or workflow, so the tracks were different, but that was OK- they all did a pretty good job (often a vg job) to cope with their circumstances. What was a MAJOR issue for sound was that one of the two principles had an 'unmikable' noisy dress which (in a low budget scenario) SHOULD have been addressed BY SOUND beforehand.

 

It wouldn't have mattered if it was a DPA 4060/1, COS 11 or whatever: the fault was in the preproduction - make the most use of preproduction in your 'low budget' status. Everybody learns. Talk to the director, get the phone numbers of the folks doing costume, makeup, figuring locations or doing sets - and make friends all around.

 

In post we know how hard it is to shoot. It's hard in post too. It's only upsetting when we recognise when some major issue might have been avoided, such as "I won't be seeing outfits before Day 1" ... why the hell not? Have you seen a script?

 

Sorry for being an ass ... Best, Jez

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I have to say... it's all nice to say talk to costume before the shoot, but in my experience - and I make it a point to always call the costume designer beforehand - the success of this is pretty minimal. In 90% the reply I get is either: "I've been doing this long enough to know what sound needs" or "sorry I don't know what the costume will be until the shoot actually begins". When I get the first reply it will almost invariably result in at least one costume which is un-lavable. 

In the second case, they tend to consult me,  but only to inform really, of what the costume is going to be. 

The other 10% are willing to work with me and helpful, but I don't know how much they'll actually change the costume because of my request. 

 

On low budget shoots it's often even worse as the costume designer often actually designed and made the costume and will have been working on them for a long time, so a call a few weeks before won't change much. But there are notable exceptions, of course

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1 hour ago, Constantin said:

I have to say... it's all nice to say talk to costume before the shoot, but in my experience - and I make it a point to always call the costume designer beforehand - the success of this is pretty minimal. In 90% the reply I get is either: "I've been doing this long enough to know what sound needs" or "sorry I don't know what the costume will be until the shoot actually begins". When I get the first reply it will almost invariably result in at least one costume which is un-lavable. 

In the second case, they tend to consult me,  but only to inform really, of what the costume is going to be. 

The other 10% are willing to work with me and helpful, but I don't know how much they'll actually change the costume because of my request. 

 

On low budget shoots it's often even worse as the costume designer often actually designed and made the costume and will have been working on them for a long time, so a call a few weeks before won't change much. But there are notable exceptions, of course

Agreed, you wont get to change much of what wardrobe will do but it's helpful to be forewarned of how you might try to hide belt pack and mic. Make contact as soon as you can but get the details/pics towards the end of pre production (or in the days running up to the scene) as things change on the way.

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On 9/20/2017 at 8:58 PM, The Immoral Mr Teas said:

Talk to the director, get the phone numbers of the folks doing costume, makeup, figuring locations or doing sets - and make friends all around.

 

Again, we do not have a wardrobe department, though I’ll ask the director specifically what he’s having talent wear to set. The script does provide clues, and I was fortunately invited to the table read where they gave some detail about the kind of wardrobe they want. But there remain some unknowns, especially with women talent who may or may not be wearing dresses. Locations were unfortunately locked before they hired me, but we’re in a rural area – lesser chance for environmental noise.

 

I hear that the bigger the crew, you’re less likely to know people in other departments, and so I definitely take advantage of smaller crews by getting to know everyone.

 

You’re not an ass, you’ve been really helpful!

 

On 9/22/2017 at 5:45 AM, Constantin said:

"I've been doing this long enough to know what sound needs" or "sorry I don't know what the costume will be until the shoot actually begins".

 

The first/previous time I worked with a wardrobe department, they started a feud with my sound mixer. It was awful.

 

I was hoping to hear about more helpful wardrobe departments, but it is what it is!

 

On 9/22/2017 at 7:18 AM, daniel said:

Make contact as soon as you can but get the details/pics

 

I’ll get the director to send me photos. I’m not expecting great turnout if he has to ask talent to photograph their outfits for sound department (we’re a week away from the shoot), but hopefully they’ve already sent him photos.

 

 

Only seven more days, and crew meeting is happening between now and the shoot next Saturday, which is my last chance to persuade the director to rent a lav. It’s doubtful that any rental would arrive by the first shooting day, but the director hasn’t made himself available until now to allow me to demonstrate the ME 2’s shortcomings.

 

Just found a rubber mount for the ME 2 made by LMC Sound. I’m buying one – I don’t expect it to solve all issues with such a sub-par mic, but at least it’ll have satisfied my curiosity and save some moleskin.

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"the director hasn’t made himself available until now to allow me to demonstrate the ME 2’s shortcomings.

  > Without an A-B demo, I doubt you'll get anywhere. Some directors just don't care about sound at all.

 

"we’re in a rural area – lesser chance for environmental noise."

  > Rural locations often have undesirable sounds as well. I was on a shoot in a remote region of Adirondack State Park... which had an active military air base ten or so miles away (next-door for jet aircraft). The scout report never mentioned this or there was little activity when they visited. Then there's the usual commercial and private aircraft to contend with along with unwanted birds, insects and environmental annoyances. Don't assume "rural" is going to be w/o issues.

I hope it works out for you anyway,

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11 hours ago, Rick Reineke said:

Without an A-B demo, I doubt you'll get anywhere. Some directors just don't care about sound at all.

 

Eh, I’ll give it a shot anyway. I doubt this guy cares but I’m just trying to CYA at this point, making sure he knows that he’s getting this kind of sound out of this mic.

 

11 hours ago, Rick Reineke said:

Rural locations often have undesirable sounds as well.

 

Oh, I don’t doubt that at all. I’ve had tractors, hunters’ gunfire, and fireworks at some of the rural locations I’ve done, as well as the inescapable problem of airplanes. But there tends to be less noise in my experience.

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I'm working on a show right now that has been rather nightmarish for lavs. First wardrobe Dept quit or was fired less than a week before we started after I had already talked to them and they were going to be great to work with. No one told me this had happened and I showed up on set the first day very surprised at the wardrobe (not lav friendly) with no on set wardrobe because they hadn't found a replacement yet. My first encounter with the costumer Designer was not a good as she told me that she was from the "indie film world" and that she didn't care about sound I guess. Needless to say the wardrobe or lack thereof has made it extremely difficult to wire actors. As constantin said above success is minimal in getting wardrobe to change anything. You basically have to get lucky and get a costume designer that does care and is willing to help sound out. Doesn't matter the size of the show or the budget.

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I recorded an American show some years ago set on a snow covered mountain.

 

I had a brief meeting with the producer and director before hand and warned them that

outdoor clothing was usually pretty noisy for lavs so wardrobe dept should be aware

 

I traveled to location some weeks later to find noisy outdoor clothing and..........

when we start shooting "oh dear" we can see the boom in the ski goggles !!!!!!

 

mike

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3 hours ago, mikewest said:

I recorded an American show some years ago set on a snow covered mountain.

 

I had a brief meeting with the producer and director before hand and warned them that

outdoor clothing was usually pretty noisy for lavs so wardrobe dept should be aware

 

I traveled to location some weeks later to find noisy outdoor clothing and..........

when we start shooting "oh dear" we can see the boom in the ski goggles !!!!!!

 

mike

Did a movie up in the snow as well. Luckily only one actor the whole time in the snow and we hid the lav in the beanie for the first couple of days until the beanie is lost, can't remember why, but everything on the boom after that. The shots were so wide that we had to be at least 10 feet up in the air. Luckily snow is forgiving. And yeah those snow goggles...

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