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Tony Johnson

Deva 24 seminar

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8 minutes ago, Constantin said:

 

To me, that makes perfect sense. I always  thought it was highly logical to have on each device - always - inputs left, outputs right. In terms of signal flow that seems to make a lot of sense. Many many devices, in fact all I can think of, are organized like that. That includes gear where connections are at the back. 

Mixing desks are organized like that, too.

Inputs left, outputs right.

I hope we can keep it like that 

 

I never thought about this by this perspective. Now it makes more sense to me too.

Thanks.

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6 hours ago, vale said:

I would have preferred to have way less analog inputs (or as a user option 4, 8, 12, 16), so less preamplifiers, to maybe have a lower cost of the machine.

In the last years, I'm using Zaxcom wireless and I'm going everything digital in the recorder (Fusion in my case, at the moment), so I'm not seeing when I'll be supposed to use 16 analog inputs on a set.

 

On other thing, to me it's still strange and funny that RX12 connector and Digital Inputs connector on the DEVA24 are on the opposite side of usb and outputs connectors in the RX12. So the cables need to go from right rX12 to left deva24, looking at the screens. Just saying.

 

I'm a fan of analog ins. 

 

Not a a fan of connectors on the wrong side, like recorders with headphone jacks on the right when all headphone cables run on the left. 

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On 14.9.2017 at 11:25 PM, RPSharman said:

Not a a fan of connectors on the wrong side, like recorders with headphone jacks on the right when all headphone cables run on the left. 

 

HD-25's have them on the right. Unfortunately, this does not seem to be standardized. Same with the jacks, Sound Devices alone have them sometimes left, sometimes right and sometimes even on top. I guess they get confused, because the headphone jacks looks like an input, but they are an output. 

 

At least they never put them at the back. Although, having said that, I wouldn't mind if the 788T had its second hp out somewhere at the back, instead of right next to the first one. That's because on my cart I have a mini jack cable going from the recorder to the CL-9, and it be way more convenient to have the connection at the back

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Then there's Sony who puts the headphone jack in a different location on each camera they release.  It's their way of saying, "It's audio -- just an afterthought -- and we couldn't care less about it."

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On September 12, 2017 at 7:38 PM, Jack Norflus said:

It's pretty real and it pretty spectacular.

 

Reality check:

 

It seems like the Deva 24 could eventually be spectacular, but to say it's real at this point is misleading, Jack. The demo at Trew Audio this past Friday in L.A. was about the hardware, designed features, and menu operation, which were all very impressive, but it's not available because there's more work to do. Nothing was recorded or played back, so that's an unknown. It's unclear what remains to be done at this point, but until it's delivering and working in the field, it's not real. In the mean time, there are mixer/recorders that are available and working in production with an established track record, and, therefor, are real.

 

Manufacturers are often tempted into showing products long before they are useable in an effort to discourage customers from buying what's currently available. Unfortunately, this practice stifles the market and results in people not having the best tools that they otherwise would have. With all due respect to Zaxcom, my first responsibility is to those who invest in this type of equipment. So, to be fair, I have to counter Jack's "it's real" statement and put out the reminder that the Deva 24 is not available, it has not worked on a production, and until it is all those things, it's not real. I also should mention that it's now been three years since it was unveiled in virtual form (though with the name and form of the "Deva 32"), and it's still unclear how much longer the wait might be. For now, I continue to look forward to evaluating the Deva 24 when it's working and available.

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The Deva24 is a finished product in terms of hardware and there is no more "work" to do. The software will be ready for the beta testers in a couple of weeks. All units on display last week (Atlanta, LA, New York and Amsterdam) were recording files. In fact the one shown in LA had 30+ segments recorded. Showing the Deva24 in Amsterdam and in US cities was never a question. With the release of the product so close the sound community needs to see the unit in order to make informed decisions on which way they might like to go. In my opinion showing the product results in people having the best tools going forward as no one is going to wait for something that is not the best choice for them. To be fair Glen you misquoted Jack. Jack said "Its pretty real" not "it's real". One is absolute and one is not. Jack is writing the manual for us and his opinion was fair and appropriate as he has been working with the hardware and software. We and many other manufactures show products before they are ready in order to properly inform the sound community. We did not invent this style of promotion. It is in fact something that all of the other major lines you carry have done in the past or are currently doing. Current examples include Lectrosonics and Audio Limited. Because Zaxcom invented the multi-track production recorder and we have an established track record, I think the sound community has accepted the fact that the Deva24 is very "Real" in terms of a next generation Deva that is near release.  The Deva24 as you have pointed out should be spectacular. It will not be long before it should able to justify that speculation.

 

Glenn

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Oh boy… here we go again.

 

Being a digital processor-driven device, “a finished product in terms of hardware” can put it a long way from being finished, and a long way from being real.

 

I didn’t “quote” Jack. “Pretty real” (that’s a quote) can mean a few things (very real, partially real, real), but until it’s ready for use on productions and available to ship, it’s not real. If fairness is a priority, Jack’s statements should include an “*” to indicate that he is compensated for promoting Zaxcom, as many are unaware of that fact.

 

As mentioned, I saw nothing being recorded or played back during the presentation Friday at Trew in LA. I was there the entire time, three feet away. Not such as big deal, as recording/playing is probably the easy part, by now.

 

We agree that the sound community should be properly informed, which is why I feel a responsibility, due to confusion that exists, to inform them that the Deva 24 is not ready and not available and, like when it was shown last February, it is not known when it will be.

 

Regarding the statement “many other manufactures show products before they are ready… We did not invent this style of promotion”, I have to say that in our niche, to this degree, Zaxcom is the innovator and, by far, the industry leader. Case in point, the unveiling party for the Deva 32 -- 2-1/2 years ago -- at the Sportsman’s Lodge in Los Angeles. Never have the two manufactures you mentioned promoted like this, nor have any others that I’m aware of. Not a recent development… Who remembers the Deva 3?

 

Finally, regarding the quote, “I think the sound community has accepted the fact that the Deva24 is very "Real" in terms of a next generation Deva that is near release.”, then mission accomplished. But statements like that underscore the need for the subject to be clarified.

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Knowing that a new piece of gear will/might/could be available in the near/far future rarely changes my buying decisions. I buy whatever is available that fills my needs at that time. 

But to be honest, the needs at that time also change with what's available. E.g. just a few weeks ago I thought I was fine with my wireless gear, now suddenly Audio Ltd release this new line, and suddenly I "need" new wireless. 

So the announcement of something new can cause me to want that, but I'll get frustrated if I can't have it soon-ish. 

To that end, I personally prefer the tactic of those companies that will not say anything until they are actually ready to ship

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23 hours ago, Glen Trew said:

Manufacturers are often tempted into showing products long before they are useable in an effort to discourage customers from buying what's currently available. Unfortunately, this practice stifles the market and results in people not having the best tools that they otherwise would have.

Really Glen!!! does this happen? 

 

I for one, and speaking here from a Sound Mixer POV and not a reseller POV, like the roll out and the updates that give a taste of what the machine will be like. We have been in a world of constant evolution for a while now with the tools we use so i think we all expect the process to be like this with the Deva 24. 

Certainly for Zax users the idea of waiting a few extra weeks is unlikely to result in a change to a Cantar or Sound Devices.

 

From memory I thought that what was gleaned out of the Deva 32 launch was that the feedback was that mixers wanted a standalone recorder hence the delay and rethink, better i guess than releasing something that people don't want.

 

I look forward to reading more on the machines progress, seeing a video of it with a GUI and seeing how it can work in my setup.

 

Exciting times.

Tony

 

 

 

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im just really happy we are going to have something like the deva 24 soon. Deva 24 + rx12.

Id rather they finish it well than give out something thats not done.

Time it took to make something has no relevance once its already made. 

On a side note I feel there should be another serial port extra. Who nows what the future will bring? also to hook up two rx12s to the deva 24.

so badass. 

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On September 19, 2017 at 6:19 PM, Tony Johnson said:

Really Glen!!! does this happen? 

I for one, and speaking here from a Sound Mixer POV and not a reseller POV, like the roll out and the updates that give a taste of what the machine will be like.

Tony

 

 

Hi Tony. My POV is also of that of a Sound Mixer, but with an inside view. When I see that products are being announced and "shown" with the promise of being delivered long before any real scheduled delivery date (there still isn't a scheduled delivery date for the Deva 24), it is clearly with the intent of confusing the market at mixers' expense. Part of a dealer's job is to help the customer make informed decisions.

 

9 hours ago, AnuarYahya said:

im just really happy we are going to have something like the deva 24 soon. Deva 24 + rx12...

 

Thanks for demonstrating the point... 

I understand your enthusiasm, which I share for this machine, but everyone should know that the hook has been baited with "soon" for about 3 years now, with no known end in sight.

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On 19 September 2017 at 3:29 PM, glenn said:

 

Because Zaxcom invented the multi-track production recorder ...

 

One of many things I fail to see as an invention.

 

Bell Labs, Harvey Fletcher and the like demonstrated in the 20s (in the USA) the pluses and minuses of two channel versus three channel sound for stereo sound ... and decided pretty adamantly upon 3 channel for film. Yet with some admirable exceptions and a renaissance in the 50s and 60s film sound stuck with mono. Stereo eventually came about (as a two channel stereo) in vinyl and tape.

 

So I think in film production the first multitrack recorder was probably the Nagra IV-S in 1971 ish?

 

There were of course multitrack recorders in areas other than film production ( possibly including broadcast ) ... music, data acquisition, even before the portable two channel stereo.

 

So not an invention in my book - bringing a 3+ channel recorder on the market another matter. But only just.

 

Sorry for being a twat, just wanted to point out a lack of invention.

 

Jez

and just to be a bigger twat, the stereo Nagras are all essentially three channel machines, just not designed to be readily so for production recording, yet it was always a possibility.

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I just want to know how the Dante is going to work. 
What will be the total track count with Dante, how many will be Dante In/out, and how many will be something else, and what else they will be.
Also, will there be trim adjustments with Dante or will Dante kill the trims as in the Cantar?

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On September 20, 2017 at 8:33 PM, The Immoral Mr Teas said:

 

One of many things I fail to see as an invention.

 

Bell Labs, Harvey Fletcher and the like demonstrated in the 20s (in the USA) the pluses and minuses of two channel versus three channel sound for stereo sound ... and decided pretty adamantly upon 3 channel for film. Yet with some admirable exceptions and a renaissance in the 50s and 60s film sound stuck with mono. Stereo eventually came about (as a two channel stereo) in vinyl and tape.

 

So I think in film production the first multitrack recorder was probably the Nagra IV-S in 1971 ish?

 

There were of course multitrack recorders in areas other than film production ( possibly including broadcast ) ... music, data acquisition, even before the portable two channel stereo.

 

So not an invention in my book - bringing a 3+ channel recorder on the market another matter. But only just.

 

Sorry for being a twat, just wanted to point out a lack of invention.

 

Jez

and just to be a bigger twat, the stereo Nagras are all essentially three channel machines, just not designed to be readily so for production recording, yet it was always a possibility.

 

Not to mention the Nagra D 4-track digital recorder.

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I have edited my original post to clearly and correctly identify our invention "The hard disk multi-track production recorder"  I believe this is the text on both our Emmy and Academy award for the invention of the Deva.

 

The Deva 24 input trims will be active on all inputs including Dante. The total track count is 24 in all modes. Dante will allow for 16 ins and 16 outs. 

 

Glenn

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On September 19, 2017 at 9:29 AM, glenn said:

"...Because Zaxcom invented the multi-track production recorder..." 

 

 

The Nagra D was a very high quality 4-track digital production recorder in use from the early 1990s through the DAT period and beyond. The Nagra Ares C was the first portable nonlinear digital production recorder that I am aware of, introduced in the 1990s. The StellaDat-2 was a very high quality very portable 4-track production DAT recorder available in the late 1990s.

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