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soundshoppe

Neumann RSM 191 Matrix box needed?

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Hi all,

Just about to receive my Neumann 191 and had a thought about the bulky matrix box that comes with it. Is it required to encode/decode MS or can I plug straight into my 633 and do all the matrixing through my recorder? Seems like a hassle to carry the box around unless there is a better benefit to the box I don't know about.

Thanks!

 

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 The box actually provides power to the microphone, which uses a different powering scheme than phantom power can provide natively. 

 

So yes, the box is needed. 

 

You can still output discreet M/S from the box and do your matrixing in the 633, which is what I do. 

 

-Mike

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 There was some talk a few years ago, either on a Neumann forum or possibly on Gearslutz, about trying to build a smaller power supply only for the mic -without the M/S matrix in it. Not sure what came of that, I believe the idea was eventually scrapped as being too difficult and expensive, and not really worth it as the matrix box works well. But some judicious googling  should turn up that discussion if you're interested. 

 

 I have and use an RSM 190, and the matrix box isn't that big of a hassle. Totally worth it for the sound of the microphone IMO. 

 

-Mike

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Interesting. I would agree, not a deal-breaker. That mic is incredible. This was all more to appease my curiosity. I'll do some googling and see about that power supply. I wonder if someone out there has an alternative as well.

 

-Tyler

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Now.... if I remember correctly....... There are two issues. The first is the powering of the capsules in the mic, which has been dealt with partly above......

 

The second is the business of the capsules within the mic. I seem to remember that the 'S' capsule, the figure of 8 capsule... is not one capsule at all, but is in fact two capsules, back to back. This would then explain the 7 pin cable between the matrix box and the mic, 3 sets of 2 wires, 1 set for each capsule in the mic, and an overall earth/shield.

 

I could be wrong about this, but I am rapidly convincing myself that I am correct.

 

If the above is correct then you would not, easily, be able to power the mic capsules directly from the mixer/recorder and decode within the same.

 

Kindest,

 

Simon B

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7 minutes ago, Bash said:

 

The second is the business of the capsules within the mic. I seem to remember that the 'S' capsule, the figure of 8 capsule... is not one capsule at all, but is in fact two capsules, back to back. This would then explain the 7 pin cable between the matrix box and the mic, 3 sets of 2 wires, 1 set for each capsule in the mic, and an overall earth/shield.

 

I could be wrong about this, but I am rapidly convincing myself that I am correct.

Good call! 

 

From the RSM 190 manual: 

"The side signal is constituted by a transverse figure-8. Two opposed single capsules are arranged closely behind the interference tube capsule."

 

-Mike

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I have done some productions with this mike and it can gave me very very good results, in stereo but also as a dialogue mike using only the M capsule. Vivid and warm - typical Neumann sound.

 

I just stumbled over two points:

- You need a very good shock mount and an effective windjammer.

- That matrix box is hardly shielded against RF. With an analogue transmitter aside, it "may" work, but with a digital transmitter it's almost impossible. I needed a lot of space between transmitter and matrix box. It worked for me at least with the matrix box as a beltpack on my bottom and the transmitter in the bag. My body worked as an RF blocker so to say. Maybe Neumann has improved this - the ones I used were a few years old.

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The box si very useful when recording in stéréo : it permits a very accurate control of the recording stereo angle.

You really should keep it.

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20 hours ago, Mungo said:

I have done some productions with this mike and it can gave me very very good results, in stereo but also as a dialogue mike using only the M capsule. Vivid and warm - typical Neumann sound.

 

I just stumbled over two points:

- You need a very good shock mount and an effective windjammer.

- That matrix box is hardly shielded against RF. With an analogue transmitter aside, it "may" work, but with a digital transmitter it's almost impossible. I needed a lot of space between transmitter and matrix box. It worked for me at least with the matrix box as a beltpack on my bottom and the transmitter in the bag. My body worked as an RF blocker so to say. Maybe Neumann has improved this - the ones I used were a few years old.

I thought they'd stopped making the '191'.

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1 hour ago, daniel said:

I thought they'd stopped making the '191'.

They did! Rare to find one for sale these days. I've used it many times and a prestine mic.

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soundshoppe, congrats to your Mic decision! after years of frequent work with the RSM, I find it convenient to have an XLR plug for the mic cable, filters and a pad at my fingertips evenwhen working with a bag. And: there is a Cinela suspension with conbox, basket + fur made specifically for the 191. It solves all your trouble regarding boom and cable noise, but all of that at a tremendous price. And it is clearly made for outdoor use, it would need a significant effort to dismantle the basket for a shorter footprint for indoor shooting.

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