Micing a school play

[joecrabb]

Hey guys,

I've got a question about theater mics. Theater is not really my skill set so anyone who has done this kinda thing, I'm open to suggestions.

My son's elementary school play is coming up in a few months and I got "volunteered" to do all the sound for the show. This entails hitting all the music and sound effect cues, (never done it for a play, but I'm confident enough that I can handle that), recording the performance (easy enough), and providing a PA set up (no brainer). What I'm looking for advice on is how to hear 20-30 kids aged 6-12 as they put on Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory.

Apparently last year (we were not at the school then) they tried putting wires and E6's on the two main kids, but I understand that it didn't work out so well as the kids got completely distracted by the packs and the headsets. Also I found out today that pretty much every kid has a small speaking roll which rules out wiring all the kids.

My first thought is to hang mics over the stage kinda like audience mics on sitcoms. Or hit the stage from the front with 4-5 shotguns in "quadrants" and then learn the play and open the mics where they are needed. Perhaps boundary mics at the front of the stage as a supplement to get the kids as they near the front of the stage?

Needless to say, this is not for any kind of broadcast. In fact we aren't even allowed to videotape the performance at all (though we can use a still camera). We are simply going to try and have the performers voices boosted to the audience and maybe put together a performance "video" using stills and the audio recording for the kids to have (very Chris Marker).

Any advice on sound for the theater is greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Joe

[RPSharman]

Our school uses 5 inexpensive cardioid condenser mics spread over three stands, left - right - middle.  They also have two hand-held wireless.  They choreograph the "leads" in a way that most of the individual dialog is delivered pretty much into the mics.  Group lines are delivered nearby the mics.  All the mics are open all the time, which is not ideal, but works none the less.  I don't know how big your stage is, or how many kids are in the play, but this has worked for a few years for our kids' plays.  It's elementary school, so everyone is happy just to hear.  Our plays are pretty basic.

Funny thing... this year, now that I am "between jobs"... and they have found out that I am a sound guy, I am reconfiguring the mixer/PA system.

Robert

[Philip Perkins]

Simplest solution I've done for this is to A: forget micing the kids for the PA (they need to be urged to speak up, and the audience needs to be quiet) and B: sit yourself or someone you trust center front of the stage with a shotgun mic (MKH 70, CS3e) and follow the ball.  If you are more ambitious and have the gear, park an outrigger mic on a stand at each side of the stage pointing inward, to get the people farther away from you.  Try to record the mics to separate tracks--or at least separate the center shotgun.  You can have the mic down in your lap so it isn't too distracting to other people in the audience.  Try to have ringers in the seats on either side of you that will stay quiet. 

Philip Perkins

[John Coffey]

This has consistently turned out to be the hardest thing I ever do as a sound person.  For The Lion King kids play, I wound up having about 30 wireless "Madonna" mics.  It was insane trying to keep all the kids miced and potting the right ones up at the right time with one day of practice, which was actually just unorganized mayhem.  Yet, every kid has lines and every parent and the primadona chorographer all want to hear every word like it was broadway. Remember that scene in The Graduate in the church where everyone is yelling at Dustin Hoffman.  It went like that. 

Cut to the next years show (and all the others we do), we provide PAs, apanel and 5 mics on stands and then it's up to the choreographer's staging to get the kids lines to happen there and I seem to always be busy on the day they need someone to mix it.  I hear it been working out fine that way.

[studiomprd]

this is not an easy gig! while there are a number of traditional ways to do a play, and of course budgets to go with them, your actors all being very young and presumably inexperienced as performers make the challenge of this very huge.  the actual goals of the entire production (not just the recording it aspect) need to be considered, as well as the budget and other relevant factors like the venue.  the staging of the play is probably the best area for dealing with the challenge of getting it heard, possibly with mic's on stands and handheld's being worked into the performance.

if the school's license does not allow recording, that would include audio recordings, too...

[David Waelder]

The only time I ever did anything of the sort, I got good results by hanging mikes from the fly area. It does require a bit of cable and some work prior to the performance but the mikes end up positioned well and fully out of the way of performers.

Typically, you would want four microphones unless you are working with a Broadway-size stage. On a proscenium stage, hang two mikes just at, or maybe one foot back from, the proscenium wall. Then hang a matching two in an upstage position but several feet forward of the upstage wall.

In a proscenium thrust stage, modify this plan slightly so the downstage mikes are just in front of the proscenium to cover the apron and move the upstage mikes forward an equivalent amount.

You'll want to get the mikes as low as you can consistent with not bonking any performers or being in the way of props, swords, spears, whatever. Typically, this would be two or three feet above the heads of the tallest performer. No one in the audience will see or take note of some small microphones hanging a few feet overhead so you don't need to take any special steps to conceal them. But a piece of flat black tape on the chrome mike tube and connector would be a good thing. It also helps assure a secure connection to the cable.

With this rig you really have minimal concerns about where the action is staged; it's either upstage or downstage. Keep all the mikes open at all times but favor the pair (or particular mike) where the action is at any given moment. If there is a special moment (Claudius plotting quietly with Laertes e.g.), that takes place away from the other business, you may wish to have an extra mike rigged for that purpose. Otherwise, this should cover whatever happens and provide either good reinforcement or a good overall recording.

David Waelder

[Guest silverking]

Three super cardioid mics in front of the stage, just peeking over the lip.

EQ the snot out of the mics so they don't feed back, and leave them up all the time.

(Regular cardioids are too wide, and shotguns are not wide enough).

Three mics are usually far enough apart to stay away from phasing issues, and if your live EQ chops are good, you should be able to get gobs of gain before feedback.

Voices will definitely sound a bit thin, but everybody on the downstage half of the stage should be able to be heard. There's no way to "area mic" like this and get full, fat voices.

If there's recorded music to accompany the singing, I never run the music through the main PA with the voices, I run the music only through the monitors (facing upstage) for the performers, and let it leak into the house.

Little kids can't sing loud enough to do battle with a CD through a PA, so I just have the kids voices through the PA by themselves.

I've used this method with success far too many times to count, the best thing about it is that (with the right EQ) it works every time.

I gave up flying mics above the stage 25 years ago, you can never get them as close to the performers as you really need to. Also flying mics really only works with omni's, and omni's feedback way too quickly compared to the super cardioids peeking over the front lip of the stage.

[studiomprd]

this is getting to be an interesting discussion, even if a bit different;  I fly mic's all the time, and also have used pzm boundary layer type micing, cardioid (and variations) over the footlights, and more. I believe the folks discussing their favorite ideas are not fully considering the individuality of the specificl venue where this performance occurs properly, just thinking in terms of the ones they have worked in.  any attempts to "mic the stage" are most likely going to fall woefully short for much sound reinforcement (PA) purposes; try to get any volume and the system will scream feedback.... BTW: my favorite and standard weapon is a dbx afs-200 feedback killer (Sabine units are also great!), but the amount of level obtainable remains quite limited. better to choreograph the staging to get the kids to come somewhat close to the mic's for their lines.

the 'stage mic's' might work a little better for recording, if allowed, maybe even the CS3e's following the action (if they can!) but with little tiny voices, the results will remain limited.  also remember: coming out of their shells and learning to project is part of the learning experience for these tykes.

please do let us know what you do, and the results!

[Don Coufal]

When my girls were younger I too was ask to do something at their school to help with plays, musicals etc. At this particular school which was Calmont in Topanga Canyon, the stage was an out door stage so the little voices were lost very quickly. I considered several of the solutions that have been mentioned here but chose this one for this particular situation.  I went to the hardware store and purchased three 18'' plexiglass squares. I mounted PZM microphones to the squares and then mounted the squares on mic stands with tilting heads so I could adjust the angle. These were placed left, right and center of stage just above the lip and tilted at about a 60 degree angle I would guess. There was also a stage mic on a stand when needed. This system worked beautifully as the little voices were crystal clear and sounded very natural. It worked to enhance the voices with out the need for a lot of PA level. It was also very smooth across the stage. And of course letting the Teacher know that a little projection from the kids always helps. I haven't tried this in an indoor auditorium or environment so I can not speak to its effectiveness there. As you know there are many variables to deal with in these kinds of situations. Good luck.

[Rick M]

I've been roped into this a couple of times. Both times it went like John said.

I did my bit, smiled a lot and got the heck out of there.  Almost as bad as doing a producer friends wedding.

I used a bunch of PZM's.  I cut and bent some 8x12" clear plexi into "L" shapes, taped them to the floor and mounted the PZM's on them.  I put 3 PZM's across the apron.   Two more likewise out on the apron facing the audience.  I did the same with two more PZM's on each side of the stage, as far up stage s I could.  I compressed the heck out of it and made a two channel semi stereo mix.

No one got hurt, it sounded fine, and wasn't too much work.

 

[joecrabb]

Hey thanks everybody. This is why I love this forum!

I think I was on the right track from the start, but it is very reassuring hearing that others have done it with success.

Since work is sporadic right now, I guess the "upside" is that I have the time to do a bit of experimentation. Ain't downtime fun.

I'll try all three suggestions - flying four or five mics, shotguns and/or cardioids from the front of the stage, and PZM's on plexi squares - before the actual performance and let everyone now how each one works out.

Joe

[Guest silverking]

Of course the best part of this whole process is that you're doing this for (and with) your kid.........which beats anything to do with sound

[joecrabb]

Amen to that Roger!

[studiomprd]

so what happened??

[joecrabb]

So the play Willy Wonka went off this past weekend.

I ended up trying to fly 7 mics from the rigging. I went with MKE2's because A: they are really small and unobtrusive visually as they hang, and B: those are what I have 7 of. I flew 3 mics downstage (L, C, R) and 4 upstage for the back line (chorus). I also had a 416 shotgun for the Bucket family which was in front of the curtain at the edge of stage right. There were two sets of PA monitors, one existing house set mounted over the stage (L&R) and one set that I brought in about halfway back in the house; each set individually controlled.

I had 1 day of tech rehearsal after I had rigged the flying mics. The set up seemed to work well and I constantly told the kids to PROJECT so I wouldn't have to use the mics. I knew full well I was going to use them and it was quickly clear that the boys playing Willy and Charlie were woefully underprojecting so I had to the two of them as they basically carry the show.

They did two shows. The first one was the first time I saw the entire play all the way through and I thought I did a pretty good job (aside from messing up a music cue which was totally my fault). After the show, probably ten parents approached me and said that they were in the back of the house (200+ people in what amounts to a small gymnasium) and they couldn't hear the dialogue that well over the fidgeting kids and crying baby. Parents will always complain. They then proceeded to suggest that for the next night I mount headworn mics like E6's on all the kids with speaking parts (15 or so). I put the kibosh on that pretty quick, but said I'd do what I could.

Second show. No real changes in micing from my part other than dropping the MKE2's  lower to the stage. For this show I just ran the music quieter in the monitors and the mics hotter. This of course led me to riding that razor's edge of feedback, and I did get hit a couple of times--but they could hear the voices!

All in all it was a great experience I learned a lot about mixing for theater, I have some ideas about how to do it better, and I'm sure I'll get tagged to do it again as long as we are at the school (he just started kindergarten). The true reward was seeing my son's face light up as he watched the play from the mixing table with me. After the show he turned to me and said, "Dad, I want to be in the play next time." Priceless!

Thanks again to all for the helpful advice.

Joe