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KGraham045

Defending your Work

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Just wanting to vent:

I have a client who has reached out to me. Here is what their editor is saying/asking:

 

They are trying to get more audio separation from the CEO and interviewer but we only got one audio track from you and it is stereo instead of two isolated tracks.”

 

I clearly explained that the stereo file I provided was a split mix containing 2 seperate channels 

 

“Channel 1 is a different mic and speaker than channel 2.

Channel 2 is a different mic and speaker than channel 1”
 
I explained it is a Split mix, and their editor didn’t use the proper audio (Original production sound Audio File) to edit….

 

I even confirmed this by having them send me an OMF and the orignal production sound file I recorded. (attached is a photo from ProTools)

 

After telling their editor they have isolated channels. And not wanting to do post sound work for free. I got this response back.

 

“We never had this issue before where there was such a bleed, in fact you can clearly hear both of them into each others tracks.

Unfortunately this standard is unacceptable for us, we need to work with clear cut tracks with little to no “bleed”.”

 

Here was my response:

 

“I have troubleshooted your issue and provided plenty of explanation. If your unable to work with the files I have provided then my suggestion is to hire a post sound professional who can troubleshoot and address any issues you have.”

 

Out of curiosity would anyone defended their work differently? Or done the post work for free to defend their work?

 

698A77CC-0F5B-4C53-B209-06A4AC8A2CD7.png

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Makes me wonder how many editors have unknowingly cost a sound mixer their job because of comments like these. 

 

What is the bleed they’re talking about? Were the interviewer and interviewee talking over each other?

 

Sounds like an overlap problem to me. Maybe the producer is throwing you under the bus. 

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Yes! That’s exactly it! Here’s part of their original concern....

 

“The client is asking to remove some specific sounds the interviewer is making while the CEO is talking. Since both tracks appear to be mixed together we can’t fully solve the problem.”

 

“We are in a bit of a time crunch for this, client is high profile and wants to see this done by today eod, tomorrow at the latest.”

 

So my thought is if it’s a “high profile client” and the project is in need of a time crunch. They should offer to pay for work/expertise.  Not expect a professional to work on it for free. Or play the blame game to get free work

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28 minutes ago, KGraham045 said:

Yes! That’s exactly it! Here’s part of their original concern....

 

“The client is asking to remove some specific sounds the interviewer is making while the CEO is talking. Since both tracks appear to be mixed together we can’t fully solve the problem.”

 

“We are in a bit of a time crunch for this, client is high profile and wants to see this done by today eod, tomorrow at the latest.”

 

So my thought is if it’s a “high profile client” and the project is in need of a time crunch. They should offer to pay for work/expertise.  Not expect a professional to work on it for free. Or play the blame game to get free work

Kyle your interpretation is bang on and as far as the post guy is concerned a little knowledge I'd dangerous.

 

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43 minutes ago, KGraham045 said:

“The client is asking to remove some specific sounds the interviewer is making while the CEO is talking. Since both tracks appear to be mixed together we can’t fully solve the problem.”

 

"in fact you can clearly hear both of them into each others tracks."

 

So the interviewer made so much noise while the CEO was talking that his/her noise appears in the CEO's track? 

 

Bummer, but not your bummer....

 

Good luck brother!

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It’s very obvious their editor doesn’t understand how to work with audio and is trying to throw someone under the bus due to their lack post sound knowledge/ post sound abilities.

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Sounds like someone within the production co is trying to stay out of trouble with their boss by blaming you for the interviewer making noise over the dialog. You can warn them about overlap but sometimes you miss things or can’t interrupt when it’s not critical, etc. Everyone on a set should be responsible for their own noise while rolling and it’s the interviewers job to understand overlap and where the threshold is on any given shoot. 

 

Their client isn’t going to care if it’s your fault or a producer’s it’s just the production co’s fault as far as they’re concerned. 

 

 

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It was an interview with a CEO of a huge company. 10 people on set had IFBs (director/producer/client) and were watching video village. 

 

Unless there is a technical issue (or it’s completely unusable) it’s up to the director/producer/client. The audio I provided is 100% professional and represents what happened in the interview and is completely useable in the edit. It was a 3 Camera shoot (2 singles and a wide)

 

I’m just frustrated that they hire and employ an editor who doesn’t know how to properly implement audio and tried to throw me under the bus.

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I would have handled it a little bit differently, while biting my tongue...

 

Why not split the mixed files and send them the two iso channels? It won't take long, the project moves on and everyone gets to live another day.

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6 minutes ago, ronmac said:

I would have handled it a little bit differently, while biting my tongue...

 

Why not split the mixed files and send them the two iso channels? It won't take long, the project moves on and everyone gets to live another day.

 

Yes, I would recommend this, too. That way you‘ll also make sure that everyone understands who messes up - without even saying anything. 

If they really are pressed for time, you would help them out with little effort on your part.

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In hindsight I could have split the file, but originally they claimed I did not give them isolated channels (Which the editor pointed out “was requested”). I originally wanted them to realize they had what they are asking for...and could take a moment to learn before sending out a chain email that I didn’t provide what was requested. And is pretty standard and intuitive in a 2 person interview setup.

 

I told them they could 

“Use Premiere To Split the file.”

 

and provided a link.

 

 

 

 

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I guess it might be a thought to see if the editor understands that the recording is of a convo between 2 people in the same room?

So, yeah, you will hear person B on person A's mic--that's sort of how physics works?  And you, Ms. or Mr. Editor are in charge of doing a little judicious ducking of the mic of the person who isn't talking from moment to moment?  Kind of an SOP audio post thing there, bub.   And yes, you'll have to split the poly pair so you can work on each track seperately.   BTW, this is also SOP.

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7 minutes ago, Philip Perkins said:

I guess it might be a thought to see if the editor understands that the recording is of a convo between 2 people in the same room?

So, yeah, you will hear person B on person A's mic--that's sort of how physics works?  And you, Ms. or Mr. Editor are in charge of doing a

little judicious ducking of the mic of the person who isn't talking from moment to moment?  Kind of an SOP audio post thing there, bub.

 

Exactly. I explained all of that and was told....

 

We’ll definitely hire a professional next time.“

 

Oh well...

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KGraham, on a final note, just want to say sorry for your frustrations. This kind of thing can happen to any of us when morons are on the receiving end of our recordings.

 

Got a very angry call from a producer once saying post couldn't find my sound. Of course, the editor had just placed it in a different folder or something since they did a break at lunch. 

 

 

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A lot of times you get an editor who has no business editing or saying anything about sound, and tries to point the finger somewhere else in order to not be found out. I've had run ins like this myself, and the only way that I could get the matter resolved was to go into the edit bay, wearing my Pro-Tools certification shirt, bringing with me my professional sound bag, and a notebook from Sony Studios to take notes as they ran me through their workflow. Then I just said "well that is an unusual way of doing things, I recommend you use a dedicated post production sound engineer for this part of your work, I think that you'll find that there are no issues here with what I am delivering to you". 

 

Never had a complaint from them again. This was for an ongoing gig that went about two years. After that, production basically knew that he was incompetent but for some reason mever got rid of him. 

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2 hours ago, KGraham045 said:

 

Exactly. I explained all of that and was told....

 

We’ll definitely hire a professional next time.“

 

Oh well...

I would tell them you agree....a professional editor!

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I understand the frustration.

If the overlaps are the major issue, did you point out this problem to the director

during or after shooting?

I'm well aware that at times it is hard to enforce "no overlaps" when things are tense

or that an interruption might hinder the flow of the interview.

Regards

 

mike

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Overlaps, calling them or not, is a director thing.  You can point out that it is happening, but beyond that it's up to them to decide if that will fly or not.  I learned the hard way that many directors do not appreciate the intrusion into their prerogative where the soundie calls all the overlaps. In an interview situation the director has to take control of this--the sound person does not have the standing with the talent to continually remind them about talking over each other.  There is an old saying in the studio music recording biz: "Don't blame me, I just recorded what you played!".

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Hi Phillip

 

I do not agree as many directors are focused on content not on overlaps or helicopters

 

We are the ears and know what post needs

 

mike

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On 31/01/2018 at 7:39 PM, Philip Perkins said:

Overlaps, calling them or not, is a director thing.  You can point out that it is happening, but beyond that it's up to them to decide if that will fly or not.  I learned the hard way that many directors do not appreciate the intrusion into their prerogative where the soundie calls all the overlaps. In an interview situation the director has to take control of this--the sound person does not have the standing with the talent to continually remind them about talking over each other.  There is an old saying in the studio music recording biz: "Don't blame me, I just recorded what you played!".

I find the same thing with directors. I will make them aware of a problem and then it’s their call. I wouldn’t interrupt a take. More often than not, if we’re in the middle of a take and something arises,  a director will glance my way and look for a signal if it’s become completely and unusable, if it’s ok to keep going, or if we need another take. Depending on my response the director may keep rolling or cut, but not my call to cut.

 

I have reminded actors about jumping lines a couple times, but it wasn’t continuous, and it was only with talent I was in good standing and able to be more friendly with on longer shoots or who I’ve worked with a lot. 

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If all cameras are pointing at the 1 person then no overlaps, if cameras are pointing at various then ask, it's good to ask whatever the context, it's good to ask just before the 1st take - it reminds everybody it can be an issue.

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On 2/2/2018 at 12:31 AM, mikewest said:

Hi Phillip

 

I do not agree as many directors are focused on content not on overlaps or helicopters

 

We are the ears and know what post needs

 

mike

I agree to a point, but I so many of the interviews I do anymore are very sensitive, one take sorts of things.  If the overlap (or any other interference) is starting to make a decent percentage of the audio unusable, then, yeah I gotta sqwawk.  But there is some applied psychology in play here, like is the director experienced enough to be aware of the sound environment, and even if they are, do they countenance interruption?  I've had it go all ways, but nowadays I tend to interrupt a lot less than I used to.  Part of that is knowing very well what I can fix in post and what I can't...

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Understood Philip, I agree,

 

But when a young post guy blames it on you, what next?

 

Cheers

 

mike

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