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withintheflux

Ursa Pro Mini AES not working

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Hi all. I’m hoping someone out there can point out for me what I’m missing. I work with Black Magic Ursa Mini Pros almost daily and typically feed line or mix level from my Sound Devices 633. I’ve recently invested in a Zaxcom hop setup (Camera Link and rx200) and would love to feed the Ursas via aes. When i feed aes audio from the rx200 I am getting no signal. I’ve selected AES manually on the side of the camera as well as in the menu. The meters simply don’t show anything. The same occurs when hardwiring via a single xlr and setting my 633s outputs to aes. 

 

Interestingly I’m finding this to be true for 2 separate Ursa Mini Pros. I even updated the firmwares, suspecting a problem with their softwares. 

 

Man I overlooking something obvious here? I’ve looked at the wiring diagrams for the rx200 and I believe the cabling is properly built. (Pin1: ground, pin2: left and pin 3: right)

 

any help out there?! Thank you. 

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You probably already know this, but BMD host their own forums with lots of active users:
https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewforum.php?f=2

If you don't get any luck with replies here, you should try posting there as well, as I'm sure you're likely to get a BMD specialist who can help you out. 

There is also bmcuser which is a busy forum for Blackmagic Design shooters (run by the same group as dvxuser and reduser):
http://www.bmcuser.com/forumdisplay.php?5-General-Discussion

Sorry I can't be of any more help, I have shot with the URSA Mini 4.6K a few times but never used their AES input. 

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With, You mentioned the wiring of the Zaxcom, And also that you tried coming out of your mixer with AES.  If your AES wont work out your mixer,  were you just mentioning the wiring coming out of the Zaxcom in case your mixer was broken, or your mixer cable was bad?  In other words what I'm saying is that if you believe your mixer output AES to be working,  and it won't provide signal to your device, then the other unit, the Zaxcom, would also not be able to provide AES output. Have you tried testing by having AES feed from one of your units to the other? Feed AES from Zaxcom into your mixer, and feed AES from mixer into Zaxcom? 

If you did, what happened?

Sincerely, Martin

 

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29 minutes ago, MartinTheMixer said:

With, You mentioned the wiring of the Zaxcom, And also that you tried coming out of your mixer with AES.  If your AES wont work out your mixer,  were you just mentioning the wiring coming out of the Zaxcom in case your mixer was broken, or your mixer cable was bad?  In other words what I'm saying is that if you believe your mixer output AES to be working,  and it won't provide signal to your device, then the other unit, the Zaxcom, would also not be able to provide AES output. Have you tried testing by having AES feed from one of your units to the other? Feed AES from Zaxcom into your mixer, and feed AES from mixer into Zaxcom? 

If you did, what happened?

Sincerely, Martin

Hello Martin. Thanks for the reply.

 

Actually the AES output of my 633 is successfully feeding the Cameralink, which is also successfully feeding the RX200. All of this is confirmed by the meters. I have also successfully fed AES audio from the RX200 into the input of the 633, so I believe the 633 is working properly.

 

 

29 minutes ago, MartinTheMixer said:

 

 

2 hours ago, IronFilm said:

You probably already know this, but BMD host their own forums with lots of active users:
https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewforum.php?f=2

If you don't get any luck with replies here, you should try posting there as well, as I'm sure you're likely to get a BMD specialist who can help you out. 

There is also bmcuser which is a busy forum for Blackmagic Design shooters (run by the same group as dvxuser and reduser):
http://www.bmcuser.com/forumdisplay.php?5-General-Discussion

Sorry I can't be of any more help, I have shot with the URSA Mini 4.6K a few times but never used their AES input. 

Thanks. I have joined the forum and posted there, but I'm still waiting for a moderator to accept my question. 

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Within,  What does the following from your original post mean?

 

"The same occurs when hardwiring via a single xlr and setting my 633s outputs to aes."

 

Thank you, Martin 

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Just now, MartinTheMixer said:

Within,  What does the following from your original post mean?

 

"The same occurs when hardwiring via a single xlr and setting my 633s outputs to aes."

 

Thank you, Martin 

 

 

I was describing that the Ursa Mini does not recognize AES whether I feed it from the RX200 or from an XLR coming directly from the 633's outputs (and the 633 outputs set to AES). Make sense? 

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2 minutes ago, withintheflux said:

 

 

I was describing that the Ursa Mini does not recognize AES whether I feed it from the RX200 or from an XLR coming directly from the 633's outputs (and the 633 outputs set to AES). Make sense? 

 

With, Ok, now I see.  You had mentioned the Zaxcom wiring, which threw me off.  You're past the step of troubleshooting wiring, if your wiring is working,  So that's why  I got a little confused there.

 

Thanks, Martin

 

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UPDATE::

 

I learned that Ursa Mini Pros want to see 48KHZ and 24bit AES audio. I had my sample rate at 44.1khz. Once I changed the 633 to 48khz I was successfully receiving AES audio via an XLR cable into the URSA. Unfortunately, though, I am told by Zaxcom that the RX200 puts out 96khz. (that can't be altered by the user). Do any of you folks have issues with camera only accepting certain sample rates for AES? Kind of a bummer if the Black Magic cameras cannot accept 96khz. I was really hoping to feed them AES audio.

 

@IronFilm I'm also asking this question via the Black Magic forum, thanks.

 

Blake

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1 hour ago, Patrick Tresch said:

 

I don't know any camera recording more than 48Khz 16 or 24bit.

 

Most of the better quality gear has SRC (Sample Rate Conversion) built in.  But, BMD doesn't always abide by what others are doing.

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2 hours ago, Patrick Tresch said:

Thanks for your info. Shouldn't the sound equipment allow you to feed a donwnconverted AES signal?

As the O.P. stated, in his case no. 

I‘m also a bit surprised by Zaxcom‘s 96k fixed output rate. That’s a bit unusual...

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15 minutes ago, Constantin said:

As the O.P. stated, in his case no. 

I‘m also a bit surprised by Zaxcom‘s 96k fixed output rate. That’s a bit unusual...

Hi Constantin. In a Zaxcom Facebook group owner Glenn Sanders was a bit unclear, saying: "The RX200 will output 32KHz or I think 96KHz. You will need to go analog if you can only do 48K"

 

Im waiting to get clarification from him. The RX200 doesn't allow you to choose the sample rate, so I don't understand how it could output 32khz and ("I think") 96khz. A bit confusing.

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Tom Visser said:

You can use an AJA ADA-4 to perform the SRC externally - not a perfect solution but a solution nonetheless.

Thanks for the thought. I definitely don't wanna stack anything else on the camera, which is already built out extensively. I sure wish the Ursa Pro did internal sample rate conversion. A Zaxcom tech on another forum said that cameras "should" have their own internal sample rate convertors to accept any rate you throw at them. It seems people's opinions differ on that point.

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3 minutes ago, Allen Rowand said:

The QRX200 manual says there's an "AES Output Sample Rate Adjust" setting, either "Normal" or 96KHz. I'd guess that Normal is 48K.

 

Thats interesting. I'm using an RX200, though. No option on this unit.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Geluidloopt said:

Normal is 32khz sampling rate, ursa wants to see 48khz and has no src.  That’s why it’s not working

 

32k is absolutely not normal, although iirc most Zaxcom rx put out 32k or at least their A-D runs at 32, don’t know for sure about the output options

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Like most BMD products, URSA was designed in vacuum without regard to how the real world works. Should it have src on its inputs? Yes. But also should Zaxcom be able to put out an industry standard 48kHz (as well as normal 23.98 LTC)? Yes.

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47 minutes ago, DHuard said:

I am newer..... and have a SD633 and ursa Pro.  I have heard of AES but can someone tell me the benefit of using AES? 

The theory is less a/d & d/a conversions will give you a cleaner sound as you're basically outputting (cloning) a digital signal from your mixer straight into another device.

some reading:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AES3

 

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/58f8d954b8a79b4ccf726c3b/t/5996db6bbf629ae6aaa707d8/1503058795711/Digital+IO+Advantages+and+Disadvantages.pdf

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