Chagos Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 Been looking at some short shotgun mics. I noticed that the operating power consumption varies a lot. For instance, the DPA 4017b uses 4.5mA, the 4017c consumes 2.8mA, while the Neumann KMR 81i sips a mere 0.8mA. This leads me to wonder why some mics would be more more power hungry than others. I'm also curious to know whether this difference is significant enough to have a meaningful impact on the battery life of pre-amps, recorders, and... cameras. I'm looking for a mic that will be used in relatively humid conditions and will live on-camera when not being used on a boom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikewest Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 Why are you worried about power consumption??? mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chagos Posted March 6, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 9 minutes ago, mikewest said: Why are you worried about power consumption??? mike "battery life", extended time away from AC, and... curiosity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismedr Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 the math is quite straight forward: P = U * I so the DPA draws 0.22W and the Neumann 0.04W on paper compare that with the typical batteries you want to use and you get a rough estimate. ie a single AA with about 2Wh runs the DPA for 10h and a 40Wh camera battery for 200h, and five times that on the Neumann. so for most people the power draw is negligible compared to the rest of the gear they run (recorder, wireless etc) and the other factors are far more important on choosing a mic (like how they sound and handle) bests chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikewest Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 Exactly Chris!!!!!!!!! mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ty Ford Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 (edited) If you look at the field of mics, and choose only shotguns with RF biasing, you get Sennheiser and the Rode NTG-3. I don't have a milliamperage figure for the NTG-3 at the moment but have reached out to someone who should know. (New info from Rode: It requires full spec phantom power and at least 5mA.) Rode very wisely chose to use the RF biasing to decrease humidity problems. That begs the question of humidity problems. With my CMC641, which I have now owned for over 15 years, I have only had two incidents of humidity problem noise. That's back when I was overly scrupulous. I would dis-assemble the capsule and body after use and store them separately. I cleaned the contacts and stopped doing that and my humidity problems never happened again. My thought is that perhaps exposing the circular gold contacts allows air and schmutz to collect and that creates the noise. If you've never cleaned those contacts, perhaps you should. Be careful! Don't apply liquid cleaner in such a was as to allow it to drip down inside the power supply or capsule. Hold those parts with the contacts aimed DOWN and clean them (gently) from beneath. Most of my work has been done in the Mid-Atlantic US. In Summer, it can be EXCEPTIONALLY humid here for days at a time. I don't have data on Amazonian Rain Forests, but sometimes the air is so thick here that you can't see the top of a 1200' broadcast TV tower. Finally, one mic will probably create few problems other than shorter battery life, however, I have heard of situations in which multiple amperage-hungry mics could not run on a mixer or console because its amperage rating of the mixer/console Phantom Power supply was not sufficient to feed multiple "hungry" mics. Regards, Ty Ford Edited March 13, 2018 by Ty Ford more info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobilemike Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 9 hours ago, chrismedr said: so for most people the power draw is negligible compared to the rest of the gear they run (recorder, wireless etc) and the other factors are far more important on choosing a mic (like how they sound and handle) bests chris +1 I’ve never actually noticed that different microphones cause different battery life when I’m using them. -Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 The conversion inefficiency of a DC to DC converter (e.g. 12v. to 48v.) is a much greater factor in battery life than is the minimal current draw of a condenser microphone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinTheMixer Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 Hello, And then there's the Schoeps 2U at a whopping 170ma. 7.7 times the power used of the DPA. Thanks, Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted March 7, 2018 Report Share Posted March 7, 2018 19 hours ago, MartinTheMixer said: Hello, And then there's the Schoeps 2U at a whopping 170ma. 7.7 times the power used of the DPA. Thanks, Martin And. perhaps more significantly, the digital version of the above monetized Neumann KMR81i draws 150mA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinTheMixer Posted March 7, 2018 Report Share Posted March 7, 2018 59 minutes ago, Constantin said: And. perhaps more significantly, the digital version of the above monetized Neumann KMR81i draws 150mA. Constantin, "more significantly" because of? I want to make sure I'm not missing something here. Also, that Neumann mic must have some serious downside, no one seems too excited about that one. Sincerely, Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted March 7, 2018 Report Share Posted March 7, 2018 1 hour ago, MartinTheMixer said: Constantin, "more significantly" because of? I want to make sure I'm not missing something here. Also, that Neumann mic must have some serious downside, no one seems too excited about that one. Sincerely, Martin No, there‘s nothing you missed. I was merely pointing to the Neumann D, because the comparison between its analog and its digital versions highlight even more the differences in power consumption between the two mics. Also, the OP mentioned the regular 81, so I thought this was information (kind of) pertinent to this thread. A lot of people use and love both versions of the KMR81i, but as I recently found out, the analog version has got no AM rf shielding, so it doesn’t work with digital transmitters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chagos Posted March 11, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2018 On 3/7/2018 at 2:30 PM, Constantin said: ...KMR81i, but as I recently found out, the analog version has got no AM rf shielding, so it doesn’t work with digital transmitters. Good to know, I wasn't aware of that. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSatz Posted April 19, 2019 Report Share Posted April 19, 2019 As John B. said, the DC converter circuitry in modern microphones is part of this. First-generation phantom powered microphones generally took the incoming 48 Volts and routed that through a high-value resistor to polarize the capsule. Those mikes generally had a single FET as their only active device, with an output transformer--miniaturized so as to fit into a 20 or 21 mm-diameter housing--that brought the output impedance down into the standard 150 or 200 Ohm range. Transformers that small, however, saturate rather easily, especially at low frequencies. They restrict the maximum output voltage and thus the maximum SPL of the microphone. More modern condenser microphones generally add an active output stage which is direct coupled, i.e. transformerless. That arrangement requires substantially more operating current, but also offers much better headroom, and greatly improves the ability to drive long cable runs. The DC converter that John mentioned improves the sensitivity of the microphone, since all other things being equal, the sensitivity is proportional to the capsule's polarization voltage, and those converters typically put out around 60 Volts. They're also almost a necessity in a modern 48-Volt microphone, since the increased current draw of the output stage causes a larger voltage drop across the 6.8 kOhm resistor pair in the phantom supply. Thus a microphone that draws 4 mA, for example (2 mA per resistor -> 13.6 V drop across 6.8 kOhms), actually receives a voltage in the low-to-middle 30s rather than 48. It would cause a major step backwards in sensitivity if such a low voltage were used to polarize the capsule. So: The original, analog version of the Neumann KMR 81 is one of the last remaining holdovers from their fet 80 series, which began with the KM 84 microphone in 1966. It features the older, simpler, lower-current, transformer-output type of circuit, with lower headroom (as a wild guess, maybe 6 to 10 dB lower) than it could have with more modern circuitry. It still does well for its age, though--it can put out about 900 mV (when lightly loaded) if it has to, for a maximum SPL of 128 dB (again, when lightly loaded). It's a nice-sounding microphone in my opinion. I don't know how well it does in high humidity, though; it's a traditional DC-polarized condenser, and for situations with any risk of moisture condensation, RF condenser microphones are generally considered more reliable. --best regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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