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RPSharman

So... Nothing new from SD at NAB, I guess.

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I am so disappointed.
 
I can only hope they have something amazing, and it wasn't quite ready to show.


They have released a lot of equipment lately so I doubt they are launching anything new, probably focused on their new wireless systems...

I think they’ve forgotten about pro users who will not buy prosumer stuff...

Best,
Manuel.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I am not of the opinion they have forgotten Pro users at all, quite the opisite, I have found their products and software updates very responsive. 

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They have actually released a firmware update to their MixPre series. On its own that’s not terribly exciting, but it does add a few cool features, like re-mix. Pair this with overdub from the 10M and add a few inputs and a mixer panel and they‘d have a really exciting package. The remix thing is also screaming for a mixer panel for the MixPre series. I bet they‘ll do that first

Paul Isaacs said in a video that they can‘t add these features to the 6-series. 

I think they also can‘t have their lower line of gear have better features than their higher end line. 

So my personal conclusion: they will release a bew higher line recorder soon-ish. 

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Maybe SD will release a MixPre 10M panel sometime after NAB (since it wouldn't really be a NAB product and why have it lost in the noise) and no later than late June for the Summer NAMM, a music industry show:

https://www.namm.org/summer/2018

 

Or just whenever it's ready and available. :-)

 

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3 minutes ago, Mobilemike said:

I want a MixPre fader panel so badly!

 

Still lacks outputs for feature and TV cart mixers. Lots of great products out there for everyone else.

 

If you want a panel, they already have that with the very successful CL12, which works with 664,633,688 and is superior.

 

What I am hoping for is a higher end recorder with a higher end mix panel to compete with Cantar and Zaxcom.

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1 hour ago, RPSharman said:

 

Still lacks outputs for feature and TV cart mixers. Lots of great products out there for everyone else.

 

If you want a panel, they already have that with the very successful CL12, which works with 664,633,688 and is superior.

True, but none of those products have the capability to act as a USB audio interface. That’s where the MixPre series is unique and having a fader panel would make it into a killer rig for a lot of the remote sessions I do, which are often Pro Tools based. 

 

-Mike

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6 hours ago, Derek H said:

I think they’re pretty happy selling us 633s, 688s and 970s for a few more years. 


I noticed you didn't mention the 664... that is their oldest 600 series mixer/recorder, it could do for an update. And is what I was kinda hoping to see at NAB this year from SD.

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I'm just trying to "catch up" on NAB on the internetz - is it right to say that there is almost nothing audio related at NAB this year other than a "Rode" ambisonic mic and an improved Zoom recorder?  I guess I'm buying a couple more Lectro SSM to flesh out my kit this year and maybe the new Lectro IEM system - was really hoping for a more portable transmitter though before I jumped in.

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I find it a little strange that so many people think SD has to come out with something new. While that would have been very exciting for me, the 6 series is more than capable of handling all the cart-based narrative work that I do. It certainly has its limitations, track count being one of them if you need more than 12 sources which is rare for many, but not all of us. If you need more tracks and you're dedicated to SD, then get a 970 or one of the other Pix recorders.

 

I know it's not just track count though. My 664 is my primary recorder and while it gets the job done, I wish I had more outputs and auxes and routing options. I wish my slate mic could go to the comteks without being recorded in the mix track but also without using X1 or X2. I wish they would fix some of the CL-12 bugs that I've emailed them about many months ago and I wish they would take my advice and change a few things in the firmware so that if you're using a CL-12, you NEVER have to touch the machine to access/change something in the menu or confirm a new entry of a track name, etc. And one of the biggest gripes I've seen from others, that you can't control the trims on on the control surface - yeah I guess it's a little inconvenient but I've actually gotten used to it.

 

I would hate to see SD come out with something mediocre just for the sake of it. They're a fantastic company and they have not forgotten about their pro user base. They will release a new machine for us when it's ready.

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9 hours ago, IronFilm said:


I noticed you didn't mention the 664... that is their oldest 600 series mixer/recorder, it could do for an update. And is what I was kinda hoping to see at NAB this year from SD.

 

The 688 is the update for the 664. Maybe I don’t follow what you mean by update. 

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1 hour ago, BAB414 said:

I would hate to see SD come out with something mediocre just for the sake of it. They're a fantastic company and they have not forgotten about their pro user base. They will release a new machine for us when it's ready.

 

Nobody wants SD to release something mediocre. But to be blunt, I think they have done the mediocre thing a lot recently and now it’s time again for some pro

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20 minutes ago, Constantin said:

 

Nobody wants SD to release something mediocre. But to be blunt, I think they have done the mediocre thing a lot recently and now it’s time again for some pro

 

Mediocre?  That's silly.

 

What Sound Devices has been doing over the last several years is broadening their market -- simple as that.  They started with pro location mixers, then added location recorders, followed by location mixer/recorders.  In deciding to expand beyond that select market, first they went after video users, followed recently by low end users and the M.I. market, and now, even more recently, wireless users.

 

It's obviously not that they've abandoned any particular market, but simply that they've chosen to pursue a much wider market.

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16 minutes ago, John Blankenship said:

 

Mediocre?  That's silly.

 

What Sound Devices has been doing over the last several years is broadening their market -- simple as that.  They started with pro location mixers, then added location recorders, followed by location mixer/recorders.  In deciding to expand beyond that select market, first they went after video users, followed recently by low end users and the M.I. market, and now, even more recently, wireless users.

 

It's obviously not that they've abandoned any particular market, but simply that they've chosen to pursue a much wider market.

 

Totally agree with your assessment of their market strategy. But nonetheless, if you look at what Zaxcom and Aaton are offering now the SD portfolio is beginning to look... mediocre 

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Mediocre or short on some things for the highest end drama etc cart-drivers, but far more than what's needed for at least 90% of location sound jobs, as they are today.  (And as they were in the heyday of the 7xx series.)   The new MixPres have brought a really high quality well thought out recorder to people who could previously only afford an F8 etc.   I don't know how the math pencils out for R+D vs sales income from a new really high end (like Cantar level) machine, but I bet the margins are tiny at best.

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7 minutes ago, Constantin said:

 

Totally agree with your assessment of their market strategy. But nonetheless, if you look at what Zaxcom and Aaton are offering now the SD portfolio is beginning to look... mediocre 

 

Thing is, when it comes to gear purchases, I don't buy portfolios, I analyze what's available and pick the right tool for the job. 

 

Also, I don't condone this whole "brands as a religion" thing that some seem to ascribe to.  That way I have a wider selection to choose from than those who worship at any single company's altar.  

 

With the exception of a Cantar (which I admire but haven't used), I'm happy to say, I have achieved success deploying gear from all the companies mentioned, and many more. 

 

For those who choose to feel disenfranchised, simply seek the best tool for your needs and you'll find we have an abundance of great choices, unimagined only a few years ago.

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Not that it matters much what I think, but if I owned a company, I'd rather release a new product when the smoke has cleared and the visibility is at it's best, that seems to me to exclude NAB as a launch platform. Like J B, I've used various systems and whatever the shortcomings of the end recording, they were most likely mine and not the systems. It's funny to me that I used my 442 mixer yesterday to send my ProTools feed to my speakers and or earwigs on a playback record gig and we had 6 Lectro wireless mics and a CMIT mini from Schoeps in the mix and recorded it all on the 688/CL-12. Meanwhile, across town my son Case was using a PSC Solice front ending a MixPre10 with a combo of Lectro 411's and Srb's. In yet another part of town my brother Moe was using a Sonosax mixer front ending his Deva Fusion and using Audio Ltd radios. What was the common denominator? Aside from being Chamberlains? They were the tools we used on the day. 

 

Big fan of all the tools available to us hard working;~) Sound People.

CrewC

 

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Perhaps the misunderstanding could be that the disappointment of the lack of a new high end recorder from SD is the same as a demand for them to build one. 

At least for me I can safely say that’s not the case.

I would certainly be excited about a new release, just as I was excited about their other recent releases, and just as I was excited about the recent releases by Zaxcom, Aaton and Sonosax. 

And while I do not experience religious feelings towards that company, I do feel loyal to them as their gear has been very loyal to me. Still, I would not hesitate to migrate to another brand should at some point their gear be more useful to me. 

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I don’t care if high end or low end or who makes it.  It needs to record, not fail when I need it, have a mechanical / tactile record button or switch (joysticks do not apply), sound good - both recording and monitoring, and be able to see meters in full bright sun.

 

I love the 788t overall, but it has failed me too many times for my liking.

 

6 series, Mix Pre, anything zoom, anything Zaxcom, pretty much anything with an LCD - I simply can’t see the screens in the sun - acceptable for menu settings routing, but unacceptable for metering.

 

literally the only recorder which satisfied my needs was the Cantar X2.  I didn’t want to buy a $14k recorder (without accessories) but logically, given my requirements, I didn’t have a choice.  If I switched over to narrative cart mixing, maybe the X3 might make sense to “keep it in the family”, but that’s not my primary work and not sure about the direction aaton has gone with super LCD panel.  So if I ever do outgrow 8 channels, very interested to see future options, even if it comes from Zoom, but hopefully someone like Sound Devices or Zaxcom.

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I believe with the very capable options in the 'low' and 'high-mid' priced ranges, makes a successor for a 788t less interesting for 95% of the market, if not 99%. In other words, in today's location sound world, a 788 mark II would be a niche item, thus less interesting to make. And with the new Deva and Cantar, the pie even gets smaller. 

 

Gossip mode; if they will come out with a 61212 (yeah they name needs some work) with Dante/aes, a super-superslot with room for 6*2 RX (audio limited integration) digitally integrated, a fader board, optional 12 extra Isos, that would make a lot of sense in the product line. More than pushing a 788 mark 2, being just one sibling in the 'top' category since the 744/722 are discontinued already.

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11 hours ago, Philip Perkins said:

Mediocre or short on some things for the highest end drama etc cart-drivers, but far more than what's needed for at least 90% of location sound jobs, as they are today.  (And as they were in the heyday of the 7xx series.)   The new MixPres have brought a really high quality well thought out recorder to people who could previously only afford an F8 etc.   I don't know how the math pencils out for R+D vs sales income from a new really high end (like Cantar level) machine, but I bet the margins are tiny at best.

 

This is why I don’t really expect to see something new and high-end from SD. It was just some wishful thinking. There’s probably very little profit in a machine like that unless you charge $12k+, and that’s never been SD’s style. 

 

They’ve locked in the upper/middle market with 6-series, they’ve brought in the less expensive market with the great MixPres, and they’ll surely bring Audio Limited some new business. 

 

Makes sense to let Zaxcom and Aaton chase the “elite”.

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20 hours ago, Tom Visser said:

I'm just trying to "catch up" on NAB on the internetz - is it right to say that there is almost nothing audio related at NAB this year other than a "Rode" ambisonic mic and an improved Zoom recorder?  I guess I'm buying a couple more Lectro SSM to flesh out my kit this year and maybe the new Lectro IEM system - was really hoping for a more portable transmitter though before I jumped in.


There was:

DPA d:vote CORE 4099  Instrument mic
Sanken CS-M1

Ambient Power Lockit (V-Lock mount with timecode)
K-Tek's 3rd gen harness

 

Plus of course various new cameras/lenses/lights/etc...  
(what I do like is BMD's new BMPCC4K has got a TC input option like their BMMCC had)

 

16 hours ago, Derek H said:

The 688 is the update for the 664. Maybe I don’t follow what you mean by update. 


They're still selling it alongside the 633 and 688.
Was hoping something newer would come along that is positioned between the 633 and the 688.

 

14 hours ago, Philip Perkins said:

I don't know how the math pencils out for R+D vs sales income from a new really high end (like Cantar level) machine, but I bet the margins are tiny at best.


I know in some industries (not saying at all this is the case here though) that their very very high end products are almost a form of a "loss leader", and they write off the costs as being part of their marketing/branding costs by being seen as leaders in their field. 

 

 

11 hours ago, Vincent R. said:

Gossip mode; if they will come out with a 61212 (yeah they name needs some work) with Dante/aes, a super-superslot with room for 6*2 RX (audio limited integration) digitally integrated, a fader board, optional 12 extra Isos, that would make a lot of sense in the product line. More than pushing a 788 mark 2, being just one sibling in the 'top' category since the 744/722 are discontinued already.


Had a chuckle over that "61212" name! ha

 

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15 hours ago, Vincent R. said:

I believe with the very capable options in the 'low' and 'high-mid' priced ranges, makes a successor for a 788t less interesting for 95% of the market, if not 99%. In other words, in today's location sound world, a 788 mark II would be a niche item, thus less interesting to make. And with the new Deva and Cantar, the pie even gets smaller. 

 

When they came out with the 788T originally there was a Cantar and a Deva. More or less the same situation as today.

The lower end is where the competition is, but they have that covered nicely. 

I‘d say there is pretty healthy market for a follow-up to the 788, but of course that may well be wishful thinking on my part

 

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